Japanese Toilets: The Future Called 30 Years Ago
blog.hopefullyuseful.com
blog.hopefullyuseful.com
You've just demonstrated why washing toilets are superior. I cannot understand our misplaced, hollow pride in not adopting something which simply works better. I've even heard some especially crazy people try to say the japanese toilets are "perverted" - the hold tradition has on some people is just insane.
Japanese toilets are simply better. For some bizarre reason we've resisted adopting them here. It boggles the mind.
I would love for the rest of the country to get over whatever biases or anxiety keeps us from mainstream adoption of an objectively superior system for bathroom hygiene.
Using an American toilet in 2014 is like programming your next web app in classic ASP. Time to upgrade.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/
Installation involved adding a T-adapter to my sink's cold water line. The whole setup takes about 5-10 minutes if you know what you're doing, or about 30 if you don't. Even if you know nothing about plumbing, you can install this thing with some patience (and probably in well under an hour).
I've been very happy overall. There are lots of similar bidets for varying prices, but the core functionality can be had for $25. I haven't felt the desire to spend any more, this thing just works.
We go through a lot less toilet paper, though we still use some for the drying. This may be too much information, but I do feel subjectively much cleaner. When we travel somewhere without a bidet, it's definitely on the edge of my mind that I miss my setup at home.
I do get weird looks when we have company, but who cares. Continue smearing poop on your butts, heathens.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KKRCFA/
I'm living in the future. Would recommend one to anyone, zero hesitation.
It is odd that whilst we use specially designed water jets and cleaning products to bathe our approach to bottom hygiene is just to keep scrubbing till there is nothing visible left.
Anyway looks like a good device, thanks for the link.
My quarter-Japanese wife won't let me get one - but of course she was raised in America. And TMI, but I've had a doctor specifically recommend one (or cheap bidet setup) for hemorrhoids.
That's not TMI. That's important information. Why do they recommend it?
Doesn't irritate as much as excessive wiping.
They are not cheap in Japan, by the way. If you buy a new apartment they are included by default(these companies work like Mafia to secure contracts with new apartment complex builders), but new ones you buy directly from TOTO are like... "what?" when you see their prices.
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/sumailab/ces9896px/?scid=af_pc_etc...
The Satis is controlled by your smartphone (which you have to admit you'll probably already have in your hand anyway) so you don't have to touch that filthy control panel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8LutKUTO4
(also shows an animation of the sprayer thingy)
http://www.amazon.com/Toto-SW574-01-Washlet-Seat-Elongated/d...
And now semantic satiation has kicked in for "behind."
No. OP is not arguing that. OP is arguing that if you got mud on your hand and tried to clean it with dry paper, there will still be crusted mud on your hand. Do you see where this is going now?
But maybe the culture of washing hands with warm water and soap is merely in North Europe. And maybe I am illusioned by the effectiveness of warm water.
edit:// English correction
[1] http://www.tested.com/science/life/459452-doing-it-wrong-hot...
Well it depends on the time of the year. In winter, you certainly don't use them that much because water is freezing cold. But as soon as it turns april-may, water becomes lukewarm or even relatively hot in summer months (summers are excruciatingly hot in Japan), so then it's not an issue anymore.
> And maybe I am illusioned by the effectiveness of warm water.
Do you mean warm water is more effective at washing ? There's actually no basis for that. Surfactants matter more than temperature.
http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-handwashi...
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/smartnews/2013/12/w...
I pretty much always wash my hands with cold water, unless they are especially grimey. The only advantage is that hot water seems to work better with soap, which may help dislodge dirt easier.
That's not true. One major reason we don't adopt them is the cost of installation. If you have an existing house, chances are there's not an electrical outlet next to the toilet. Why is is important? Because Japanese toilets require power. Why does this suck? Electricians are not keen on working on bathrooms because of all the pre-existing pipes, so to do the job right, they'll probably have to rip off all the walls. Once the electricians are done, you probably have to hire a bathroom remodeler to fix everything up, because again not many licensed people are keen on working on the bathroom unless they specialize in it.
This isn't true of Mountain View, Sunnyvale, and San Jose. Perhaps you are thinking of SF?
I never said it wasn't a valid idea. It's just a hard and expensive one. You guys will find out once you become home owners in the future. Also a Japanese toilet costs the same as a cheap car. If you haven't already guessed, I wanted one for my bathroom for years now. It's just not practical.
http://www.amazon.com/Toto-SW574-01-Washlet-Seat-Elongated/d...
That + drywall + electrical is maybe ~$2500.
Sounds like the only expensive part is if you already have expensive deco.
I suspect it's just something that most Americans (and Europeans) simply haven't experienced or are even aware of. And it probably doesn't help that the initial reaction is probably negative--which may be why nobody's made a serious attempt to push these in the US.
The day I push an elevator button or place food in my mouth using my soiled anus is the day I agree washing it constantly is required and not just pleasant.
Do you then pick up your chicken wings or pork ribs with your butt cheeks and stick them into your mouth, proceeding to lick off the excess sauce/grease?
I have just demonstrated why your example has a complete lack of logic or value.
FWIW, I use a baby wipe. This uses less water and about the same amount of paper. it actually does a little better job, is quicker and far more economical. My toilet will last 40 years with about 10% of the purchase and maintenance costs. I also carry wipes around to use in public restrooms so while you may get clean at home, I get clean on the road as well.
I mainly do this because I have itching/chapping issues if I don't.
These are essentially telephone showers installed next to the toilet. You switch them on using a valve/trigger and then manually direct the fire. Simple, cheap and no fuss.
This little guy, however, turned out to be a closet fire hose. It pretty much went from 0 to 1000 gallons per sec in an instant and just wouldn't let up, the valve was stuck. The extension cord was twisting and coiling around like crazy with the released pressure, the shower head was going at full blast in my hand, initially directed at my rear, it was continuously pushing my hand away from anything that I was trying to point it to, it give me a visceral understanding of how jet engines work.
Working out a sequence of operations in my head to get out of such a situation while caught in a compromised and inflexible position, with only one hand free, was quite a challenge. I am not quite sure if I should be thankful that it wasnt autonomously powered and directed.
My first Japanese toilet experience happened @ Google (I was interning there at that time). When the water touched the derriere, it made me flinch and jump with surprise, as I wasnt quite sure what to expect, this was several years ago and Japanese toilets were still an unfamiliar opbject to me. And it really tickles the shit out of you ! (no pun intended) I guess there are ways to choose between a laminar and degrees of non laminar flow (all those controls must be for something), I would expect the former to be somewhat less flinch inducing.
I read Shogun as a kid (great book, for a little kid) and going back home to the USA and using the toilet there always reminds me of the scenes where the European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... gross
Now that I live in Japan, I can say that it is really weird when I go back home. I usually take my shoes off and every now and then I step in a wet foot print from someone who just came inside from the rain and really wonder why it is like that.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18ekqf/as_a_canad...
http://www.quora.com/Do-real-Americans-wear-shoes-indoors-as...
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101011193926A...
During the rest of the year, it depends a little bit on the residence. I never cared if someone kept their shoes on in the junky apartments I lived in during college, but if it were my parent's well-kept house for example, I'd consider it rude to keep them on.
One of my friends has such high carpet and a close to the floor door that they can't have a rug immediately inside their unit. They contrived a mini parkour course to safely enter. You'd have to hop from the common hallway to a rug 2ft in and then to another one 2ft further, all in the name of etiquette and not wearing shoes "inside".
Interesting point: You also never see people on TV shows and movies taking their shoes off when they go to a house but I imagine this might be mainly due to the show not wanting to break up the action.
[0] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Rogers%27_Neighborhood...
[1] http://photomatt7.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/mr-rogers-was-a-g...
Well on a ship you certainly can't wash yourself every day. And even in Europe, there was a lack of running water to wash yourself as often as you wanted. Japan has tons of rivers everywhere and is one of the richest country in terms of river water - and you can add onsen (hot springs) on top of that which provides free warm water to those living nearby. It's easy to criticize people of old, but they lived in very different conditions than we do, and Japanese had as much water as they wanted hence they developed that everyday washing culture.
Yet, Japan is actually importing water from other countries because they can't even meet their needs anymore in water supply - so the Japan model is not sustainable if you think about it this way. The consumption of water is among the highest worldwide (not just for bathing, but also washing clothes etc...) so it you applied the same model everywhere else you'd run out of water very fast in most countries.
There was a phenomenon that the public baths became associated with the spread of plague and syphilis when those diseases reached Europe (because they were associated) and usage declined. This has somehow done whisper-down-the-lane into the idea that Europeans were filthy.
Yeah, but Japan does not need to make their own crops. It's very much a policy that can debated. Surfaces for agriculture in Japan are very well, mainly composed of small-time farmers, and that kind of activity only exists because it's heavily subsidized by the government, and the country applies huge tariffs and trade protections to prevent importing food from other countries around (at the expense of Japanese taxpayers and consumers).
Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.
If war comes around, ANYWAY a country like Japan will be f*ed to sustain its agriculture, with no access to commodities from outside and energy resources like petrol, fertilizers and so on. It is in the best interest of countries like Japan to sustain peace with neighboring countries and have strong trade ties with multiple partners so that a crisis with a single one would not cut off their supplies entirely.
> Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.
I disagree, because the cost of closing your borders is way, way higher than embracing global trade and benefiting from commodities that can be produced more efficiently and cheaply in other countries, even in the remote case of conflict. And if at all, this should be a choice made by the consumer, not by the government.
You can keep your borders open while still maintaining some essential capacities...like GROWING FOOD. Sure, you can import, but its up there with weapon/defense production in what you probably shouldn't outsource completely to your potential enemies or allies who are further away than your enemies (China...cough...).
Only winters, is the in-house rubber slippers (not the washroom ones) are changed with warm slippers.
Besides, you never know what you will learn next. Stay hungry :)
Barefoot or not your feet are dirty, the shoes are a different kind of dirty, and there's other stuff on the floor too (like in my instance, I really need to get a roomba because my cat sheds all over the place). So whatever.
I'm pretty amazed guests will take their shoes off because everyone that lives here does, like this is what happened when a whole bunch of people came over to my place after my wedding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chix0r/13618218504/
Don't even feel like discussing how clean are fresh are everyone's socks.
Agree socks might not be 100% clean but you have to draw the line somewhere, and the bottom of a sock is bound to be cleaner than the bottom of a shoe.
In central Europe it's common to have a special room called checkroom/garderobe next to your main door where you store several pairs of guest slippers.
But it just makes sense, even in dry summer weather. Or is it blasting AC that makes shoes necessary?
Slip-on shoes are basically a must-have thing in Japan.
This was disgusting to me at first.
Echoing a few other comments, I feel like a bidet is something you have to experience yourself before you trust it. Once you do though, I think you are forever changed.
On my last trip back to the states, I remember feeling perpetually disgusted that all I had to clean myself with was paper. It's disgusting - barbaric even... you're just smearing waste all over yourself.
If you don't feel like spending the money to install a Japanese bidet, a Thai "bum gun" might be a more wallet-friendly option.
[1] - http://thatluckyboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bum_gun_t...
- True that the English seat occupies less space, but its adoption has not always been based on space savings.
- True that sitting appears more gentleman like, rather than sitting half subtended in air, but hey who is watching?
- True that elderly find the english version easier to use because of the supporting nature of the seat, but its not a hard rule. A hybrid of both (Anglo-Indian) seat is more suited to them, and ailing patients.
- The Indian version is more hygienic, as no part of your body directly touches any part of the seat. Besides superior genital cleanliness over time due to wider leg positions.
- The Indian version is decisively easier to clean/maintain compared to the English version.
- Moreover the Indian version, is more suited to over-weight people than a English version.
- And relatively, due to its production in labor intensive market such as India/China, the Indian version is cost-efficient, suited for developing nations, who still have a fairly large population that needs proper sanitation structures.
Although sitting for longer than 5 minutes is painful and gets worse with age.
At university (UK) I couldn't work out why some toilets had shit all over them, like people just evacuated all over the seats. I thought: what animals/dirty tricksters! After reading that book I realised that it was non-uk students who were struggling with the UK style toilets.
Some suggest standing on the throne as a compromise, but it's a bit precarious, and it's not nice if you miss the target.
I prefer squat toilets myself, as long as they are kept clean.
http://demenglog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/toilet-seat-...
These 'washlet' toilet seats can be retro-fitted to normal toilets. It's really easy as long as the flush-water inlet to your toilet has a standard fitting. Oh, and assuming you have a suitable power socket near the toilet. The manual recommends a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) socket.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001KKRCFA/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=...
I have a similar one and it works great (though it's not as luxuroius as a Toto).
Bio Bidet is one of them (BB1000). Stateside, there's Brondell (I recommend the Swash1000) but my preference is for Bio Bidet.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XNW1Q0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...
Both the models I recommended are of this type (they are just a seat, and they don't require a hot water line).
I considered the model you recommended. The main reason I went for the higher-priced models is that they are higher-power, and can heat the incoming water in real-time. The more inexpensive Toto models are lower power, but compensate by having a built-in tank to store water. I guessed (but did not verify) that, on occasion, the tank could run out of hot water before I was done.
Does the tank on the B100 always have enough hot water for you?
Yup, it was enough for my pregnant wife when she was staying at home.
Wow! What do these do? I bent over the toilet bowl and pushed a button at random...
I don't know if this is the way the future is going to pan out - water is an increasingly scarce resource and, as it is, we waste a gallon or so of water to lift one's leavings up and over the u-bend.
Of all people Bill Gates is probably the expert on what toilets will really be like in the future, allegedly water, toilets, sanitation and health is something he is most interested in.
Personally, although I am not into 'standing desks' I am into 'standing toilets', as in the humble urinal. One's aim is easier and there is no seat to remember to put down for the next user. Less water is wasted. I would want one at home so as to avoid 'female complaints' regarding the state of things. Ideally the outflow from the adjacent sink would keep it clean so water wastage really would be minimal. It would be in a room of its own, a very small room with no need for anyone female to ever enter it.
I recently replaced an extractor fan in a bathroom. I thought that a quiet fan would be preferable and I was disappointed with the noise made. However, then I realised the real purpose of the fan, it is to make noise to disguise the sound of one leaving one's leavings. I believe that the Japanese toilets have some of this functionality too. Can anyone confirm that?
I don't really get these water shortage scares people talk about. I can see how it is an issue in remote/poor areas around the world, but a country like the US has nothing to worry about. If fresh water reserves get low we can always desalinate seawater. There are engineering challenges and energy costs to do that, but both are solvable issues. No one is going to die from thirst.
No one is going to die from thirst? Maybe. But a lot of the water loss is in the food-producing middle of the country. People are already starving in the US, and increased food prices will only exacerbate the situation. [1]
[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer#Subsidence (sections subsidence, saltwater intrusion, and salination)
Making black water potable I'd guess uses more energy and resources than recycling grey. I bet a victorian sewage system couldn't work without gallons of water either. An alternative might be to defacate in our gardens if we have them.
Piss by itself isn't that harmful, you can use it on the garden. I piss frequently into a watering can.
I agree that there are more ways that we should be conserving water, and we are beginning to see more toilets with a small or large flush function (which almost all Japanese toilets have as well).
As for your question about the noise function in Japanese toilets, fancy bathrooms sometimes have a noise function to cover up the noise of using the bathroom. Most normally it is a recording of a toilet flushing, but some other more "luxurious" ones have little jingles that play when you hit a button.
http://www.amazon.com/Lavette-Bottle-Perineal-Irrigation-DYN...
It's an even cheaper alternative to the cold water attachment, it's portable, and you can fill it with warm water.
How does one use it? Is there a straw inside that draws from the bottom of the bottle? Do you need to position it upright, or upside down?
These two seem more natural to use, If you didn't have your bottle already, would one of these be more interesting?
http://www.amazon.com/Hygienna-Solo-Portable-Cleaning-Soluti... http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Bidet-BB-20-Portable/dp/B004IW5IT...
I think I would buy the same one I have over one of those. For this application, I think I value simplicity.
Women might have slightly different requirements for this than men too.
My wife, refuses to get one, or even the fancy seat attachments because...tbh...they're freaking expensive. I can basically refit all the toilets in my house for less than the discount price for a single seat...and that's not including the cost of the electrician to put a power source near just one of my toilets.
There's also lots of research in her home country that women shouldn't use the bidets in these toilets for various reasons particular to their anatomy.
To compare, a Glacier Bay 2-piece high efficiency dual flush elongated toilet is <$100 at my local home depot.
Toto Washlet S350e seat with heated seat and warm water bidet is $1,700. I frequently see cheaper Korean versions at my local Asian Market for $800-1200. I saw one at Costco for $650 the other day.
If they want to penetrate the market, they need to drop the price significantly, corner the market, then start cranking the price up faster than inflation.
This among the many reasons why it's helpful to at least learn to read kana before visiting, as it makes a lot of things easier--there are an awful lot of English words written in kana that you can decipher (well, French in this particular case, but you get the point I hope).
Whatever else you want to say about them, they are closer to the UNIX tradition than Japanese toilets.
I had a particularly bad day at a London client onsite and out of sheer desperation Googled for travel washlet (I have one normal at home and was missing it badly), not that I had any idea how you would even construct one but lo and behold, there it is.
Washing your butt so it's clean = yeah, that's pretty cool.
Eating the right food (and being lucky to have good digestion) so that normally the paper you wipe with comes up white = priceless.
Of course you'll have to wash your hands, but still, we're not hardwired to make a mess every time we defecate. Maybe you could say that's excessive smoke indicating the engine isn't running right. Japanese toilets aren't a fix, they're a workaround.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bidet http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_(meuble)
How do you make sure that the water doesn't merely distribute your feces all over your butt?
How do women prevent that feces get sprayed onto or even into their vagina, since the water seems to be coming from the rear side of the toilet?
Also, does it do away with the need for women wiping after a pee?
>:(