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> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous.

You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO.

>From regulations on fruit

Ugh. I wish people would stop bringing this horrendous straw-man up. Those regulations replaced a dozen separate national regulations with one single European regulation. That's good for trade and good for consumers. It's not something to bitch about.

>Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer.

You may be waiting a lot longer than you think.

> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think.

No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws.

There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

The public will demand we govern ourselves rather than be dictated to by some foreigners.

If not, I'm sure there will be wars pretty soon...

> There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

Yeah, I certainly hope so. Britain has been helding back European integration long enough :)

As an European from the Shengen Area, I never really considered the UK a part of EU.

London is 2H30 from my home (Paris), but I found going to Roma or Barcelona more easy, since I don't need any ID (and don't have to deal with customs and the induced delays).

I board the train on the evening, and when I wake up I'me ready for a week-end abroad. It's also cheaper, but that can be explained by the technical feat required to create The Channel Tunnel.

I agree. I am British. I'm in no way whatsoever "European". We'll be better out of the EU, and the EU will be better without us.

> We'll be better out of the EU, and the EU will be better without us.

I don’t know and don’t care about the former, but being able to implement remotely sensible policies without an American outpost sitting at the table will be a net plus for Europe, yes. I wonder why you guys wanted to join in the first place. Free tr…uce, free trace, free…trade, maybe?

EDIT: OTOH, is there any industry left in Britain that could benefit from ‘just’ free trade, as opposed to free movement of capital and such?

Things will be different. For example, Britain will have absolutely zero say in any regulations or currency policies in the European Union. Which sounds great, from a british perspective, until you consider that the UK will be forced to swallow any EU regulation anyway. That's what the Swiss and Norway do by essentially importing labor and trade goods without checks or customs. If you want import controls and customs however, you have to sacrifice a percentage point or two of your GDP...

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/07/eu-referendum-paradox/

Not sure that qualifies as 'overwhelmingly hostile', especially with so many undecideds.

No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say.

As an outside observer from another continent, pitching the idea of an in-out referendum struck me more like your politicians simultaneously punting and pandering on the issue without actually caring to leave the EU. Especially considering that your current government refused to even try and make the referendum happen unless you reelect them first. The further you get from the 2008 economic meltdown the less you'll care to leave the EU and they know it.

I just checked the polling and even though a few years ago there was a 25 percentage point lean towards leaving, it's declined over the years and I'm completely unsurprised to see today that in March opinion has started leaning towards staying.

>There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

Current opinion polls would beg to differ. Labour is polling first and UKIP and the Conservatives are vying for 2nd place.

And as for a referendum, ~43% want to remain in the EU with ~36% wanting to leave.

> You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide.

I suggest you go read up on WWI.

To be fair, trade between European countries has increased by orders of magnitude since WW1, and that remains true even after you account for general economic growth.

>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic.

Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite?

As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.

> Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite?

No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money.

OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France."

What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?

That people feel better. Many things the EU does are about the feelings of people. I know, we are all rational beings and so on, we should just stop our feelings and get on with it. But that doesn't work. And because it doesn't work we don't say "English is our language from now on. You don't want that? Sucks to be you" and because of that the parliament moves between two cities.

The fact that some people, in some foreign country I will never visit, feel better, isn't much comfort to me I'm afraid.

Why not? To them, you're just some person in a foreign country.

Exactly! And that's how it should be.

If you're wondering why all your comments are turning an ever-lightening shade of grey, it's because of uninformed, thoughtless, selfish sentiments like this.

The "ME ME ME" age of politics needs to end. And in some places, it appears it's moving towards that goal.

I'm not wondering. I fully expected hackernews crowd to be gushingly pro-european. This view is thankfully not echoed in the UK.

It's not about being selfish. It's about democracy and freedom. Imagine laws being created by people who don't even live on the same landmass as you, speak the same language, or know anything about your country or culture. Imagine if Brazil started making laws about what US citizens could do.

I think you overestimate how United the United States really is, compared to the EU.

London is a 4 hour drive from Brussels.

Washington D.C. is a 41 hour drive from Seattle. And you can't even drive from D.C. to Hawaii.

When looking real hard at culture, I'm sure we can find as many differences between people from NY,NY and say Fairbanks, Alaska as we could between Londoners and Berliners.

I'm not against your arguments that the EU is a Bad Thing as such (I'm still on the fence on that one), but if you're thinking that US citizens cannot possibly relate to our issues with the EU since they're all nice and united, you could be in for a surprise.

The US is all on the same land mass (mostly). They all speak the same language. They've all lived there pretty much the same amount of time.

With Europe, the UK is a different landmass, we all speak different languages, and we have centuries of complex history and culture.

Sure, the US varies quite a bit, but nothing like the amount that europe varies.

Not to mention, States (as opposed to Federal) Rights is a big deal in the US because we find your exact concerns to be crucial to efficient government.

I'm glad to see a European that the idea of local government isn't completely lost upon.

Its also strange to see such a pro-centralization crowd on HN given that the causation relationship between diversity/decentralization and robustness of a complex network is well documented.

> OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!!

That is not "another example"; that is easily the most ridiculous waste of time and money in the EU. There's plenty of other waste, but none of it compares even remotely to this.

I love the EU man. It doesn't look like you understand the plan. Given the size of the US, China and India each European nation alone is weak. However combined they are the largest economy in the world.

We're doing this to remain relevant and to prevent other nations from tearing us apart through uneven economic exchanges much like workers ensure they cannot be exploited by joining unions. It is a union and has all the perks (and problems!) associated with unionization.

So are you one of those EU critics who think there should be no free trade in Europe? Thereby sacrificing a significant amount of points of GDP and disrupting (in a bad way) the European Economy?

Or are you of the other faction which actually believes you can have free trade without the EU, and even without talking to each other? Really, the alternative is 28*27 bilateral treaties on each and every issue in international trade. More, if you include Switzerland and Norway.

I think the back and forth isn't necessary. On the other hand, the parliament is regulating the biggest single economy in the world. I'd be careful of penny-pinching at the wrong end. And the parliament isn't the biggest cost in the EU budget. Quite the opposite.

>money wasted in translating every document into every language

How do you think google trains their translation algorithms?

(They also use the UN equivalents.)

I did not suggest that actually, but I do believe the EU has contributed towards cementing peace in Europe. Certainly the EU made prosperity easier by removing the need for borders.

If you think the EU is too bureaucratic and wasteful, you might be right. But just consider the alternative, if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations. You would have to negotiate bilateral treaties between 28 nations.

Another good point for the EU is that it demands democratic standards from all the members.

> "if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations."

I don't... I don't see any upside to increased centralisation and globalisation.