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Comment by bushido | Hacker News Reader

8.1 has the option to boot to desktop, they could enable that by default.

Personally I don't see Metro as a UI failure, my productivity actually increased with metro. I rarely need to use the mouse, which is great.

Also, hitting the windows key to switch screens is not a big deal, my grand parents complain about it a little, but the pains of having to explain finding stuff in the start menu to them and other older relatives has stopped happening.

Additionally with the docking capability of the task bar aka "pin program to task bar" had made the start menu quite redundant since win 7.

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> my productivity actually increased with metro

How so? What productivity enhancements exist in Win8 that do not in Win7?

This is a genuine question. I upgraded to and use Win8 daily for about 14 months now because I like running the latest stable software (from any vendor). But, with the exception of no longer being able to search without going full screen, it's exactly the same.

Edit There is one fairly big enhancement I completely forgot about: the "power users menu" accessible via right-click in the bottom left corner or by pressing Windows-X. Of course this has nothing to do with "metro".

> no longer being able to search without going full screen

Press WindowsKey + S to slide in a sidebar on your current monitor. It took me a short while to adjust but I use it naturally now.

This is awesome, thanks

Since 8.1, you can actually search without going fullscreen by pressing Win+S, which reveals a search sidebar on the right side without bringing up the start screen.

For one, there's two efficient axes of navigation along the Metro start menu, you can go left-right or up-down with your keyboard, which is SO much more amazing than the "hold down down key for 6 seconds. Awp go back up five. Now hit right four times. Enter" to launch an app that is actually "pinned" to your start menu. I can orient my Metro tiles how I want, and I know I can get to it within 5-6 arrow-key presses max. This is very nice and for the first time in 6 years I've actually used the Windows key to open the start menu for something other than shutting down (have been for the last 18 months of using Windows 8.x).

Going full screen really doesn't bother me one bit. I'm launching a new app, I'm losing context anyway. I find this similar to Apple's launchpad or whatever that OSX thing is that I never use because Spotlight and Terminal is all I need from that OS.

Vaguely related to improving productivity, Win8 has significantly better multi-monitor support out of the box, with all the flexibility I'd want, and with it better window management, than either of OSX or Win7.

Just my $.02

Don't people on windows launch apps by hitting the windows key and then typing the first few letters of the program they want to run?

They changed this around windows 7 where you don't even need to hit "r" for run, It took me about two years to retrain myself on Windows 7 that when I wanted to start cmd, that I didn't have to type [WIN]+'r'+'cmd', and could just type [WIN]+'cmd'.

on Win7 I cannot remember the last time I actually navigated the start menu to launch a program. It's either on quicklaunch (pinned if you prefer) or win + search.

Every time I create a VM with 8 to try and use it, I last about a week and give up.

In short, Win8 is usable because the keyboard shortcuts are effective. That is the wonderful world of touch-screens.

There are a large number of keyboard shortcuts that are extremely helpful for common tasks. Windows-X is my favorite.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/keyboard-shortcut...

Shaving seconds really. But it adds up.

1. Dock/Pin primary apps to task bar (same as win 7)

2. Organized(Grouped)/stripped down metro for less-frequently used apps. Removed tiles for any apps that I do not use -> Reduces the number of apps I need to pin to the task bar -> Hit Win Key to quickly switch to Metro and select app

3. The first win 8.1 update (released 5-6 months ago) reduced the search to 25% of the screen. Hit "Win + S" for search under classic mode. Personally I just hit the Win Key and start typing, enters metro momentarily.

4. First win 8.1 release added a start button to the task bar. Hated it for 2 secs(for reducing my task-bar space). Right clicked start button and realized I could remove a couple of additional tiles/task bar pins. Keyboard shortcut is "Win + X".

4.1. Tip: Right clicking the start menu has a Quicker shutdown menu option. Tip 2: Additional shortcuts for the menu are only displayed if you use the keyboard shortcut to open the menu.

In practice, none of this comes close to compensating for the slower usage of the start screen vs. start menu, if only for the visually jarring effect it has. Additionally, normal document-oriented usage is considerably less practical since they removed the Recent files and the (implicit) recent/most used applications list from the start interface. Then there's the time lost due to unintended edge-pulls and hotcorners.

Interop between modern and classic is still terrible - no windowed modern apps (nor for that matter modern-docked classic apps), and start search is split by app type (as is so much of the UI).

The modern UI also suffers from not allowing renaming of apps, especially since so many apps+settings come in modern and classic flavors. Is that blaryscroo app in the search results the modern or classic variant? The icon looks plain, maybe that means it's modern? This is basically app-starting by trial-and error. If you try to rename the less-useful blaryscroo modern version to something like "blaryscroo (modern)"... well, you can't. Want to right-click the app for traditional options such as recently-opened files by that app - you can't do that either in the start screen.

All in all, for practical plain, boring, actually getting-things-done windows 8.1 simply hasn't made much of difference vs. windows 8, and it's made a rather negative difference vs. windows 7.

Don't get me wrong - I'm happier with boot-to-desktop than without it, but frankly, booting isn't where I spend most of my time, and then you're left with the fact that the start screen is really just a slightly larger, slower start menu - and the rest of the OS is a usability disaster for desktop usage. Despite the hype, windows 8.1 was virtually irrelevant for desktop usage.

Downvoter: care to explain why you feel this is inaccurate?

I didn't downvote you, but I can only speak from personal experience that I haven't found the start screen to be any slower vs. the start menu.

None of the negatives you mention apply to my usecase (I don't typically rename shortcuts, nor did I ever use the recent files functionality etc.)

But what I do find is that the start screen is faster for opening the application I'm looking for: I'm either searching for a particular name as with the start menu, where the speed is about the same, or I'm browsing around looking for something whose name I can't remember, for which I find my groupings of smart tiles far easier to parse in a quick glance than I ever found navigating a directory structure in the start menu.

A directory tree to open applications still seems a bit like a holdover from the filesystem design, rather than an interface that's been designed for the purpose of finding the right application fastest.

not the downvoter, but my 2c: > if only for the visually jarring effect it has I don't find the effect jarring in the slightest, actually. there's a gentle fade into the background and then the tiles fade in, which I find quite easy on the eyes.

> since they removed the Recent files I work with my apps pinned to taskbar. If I want to open my last VS solution, I right click on VS and click the top icon, which is the recent list? Maybe there was another recent list.

> Interop between modern and classic is still terrible I agree here, in fact I would go as far as to say it's non existent, although I'm not 100% sure what sort of interaction I would expect between them. Allowing the metro apps access to more functionality would reduce the sandbox level in WinRT, so that's not going to happen. The only way I can see it happening is if MS give desktop apps access ti metro/modern app data, which is a privacy nightmare, so I don't know what the solution here is. I'd be interested in hearing one though.

> no windowed modern apps Article says all MS universal apps will be windowed going forward, so I guess that means they're backing down on this.

> start search is split by app type don't know what you mean here. If I type in "Evernote", I get Evernote(desktop App) Evernote(text file I have named evernote) Evernote(Metro App)

> The modern UI also suffers from not allowing renaming of apps. Rename the classic ones so?

> but frankly, booting isn't where I spend most of my time

Where do you spend most of your time? By the sounds of your criticisms, searching among the number of metro and classic apps you have installed, on the metro screen? I don't know about you, but 95% of my time is spent with FF, visual studio, spotify, sourcetree and 3DS max open, none of which are affected by the metro interface, so nothing has changed for me.

The only complaint people have is the start screen for Windows 8, which seems to more be a case of "I like the start menu", although as you state there is some missing functionality re: recent files. But what about the improvements?

My boot time was cut substantially, I'm on my desktop(including going via the start screen because I like booting to it and seeing the live update travel tile and looking forward to my next holdiay) in ~ 8 seconds.

Much better multiple monitor support, for backgrounds, multi-taskbars.

Built in reset and restore settings.

File History: this is awesome. Works like time machine for OSX and is a major upgrade over Backup and Restore.

I've also noticed my usage is snappier than it was on 7, and an increase in battery life on my MBP ( I run bootcamp).

Built in ISO mounting (bye bye wincdemu) is also cool. Overall, I'm happy, and won't be changing back.

Oh yeah, there are definitely technical advances, and they're not trivial. But they just don't compensate for the UI issues, and those are problematic.

e.g. on the interaction front, I'm not talking about technical interaction, but UI interaction - there's no reason metro apps can't run in a window nor classic apps can't run in fullscreen, even if their design won't be optimal for the non-normal UI. As is, you're forced to use two quite different UI's intermixed with one another. (Task-switching between classic+modern is problematic too).

I spend most of my time in and switching among the application I use to work/play in. I think the worst missing feature is the missing recent files/applications feature which means that ad-hoc workloads with various single-purpose tools are quite unhandy. It's not just recent files: the same thing counts for recent programs. Win7 provides taskbar (and start) pinning for your really common programs. Win8 provides start customization. But for the rest - the stuff you organically happen to use a lot for a particular task - Win8 has no alternative to the win7 recent programs.

Boot time: that's nice, but I really don't care very much - my old boot time was less than 30s, and now it's probably even less - but how often do you reboot?

I haven't noticed the multi-monitor support being better, what's the advantage?

In any case: there's no doubt that win8 has numerous technical advancements - and frankly, I like the modern interface. That makes it all the more aggravating that the UI is such a haphazard mess. The problem isn't modern - it's how they've done virtually no work in coordinating between the two UIs. If good integration is impossible, I'd even rather just have a mode-switch: render everything in classic mode, or everything in modern, regardless of what the app was really designed for.

Mine has significantly decreased. They made it near impossible to simply open a command prompt.

WIN + X, C

I have barely touched W8, but have they removed the Win+R run command? My go-to-prompt tends to be "Win+R c m d Enter" on XP and 7 (and "Cmd+Space t e r Enter" on Mac OS X).

It still exists, unchanged.

On 8, I can do Win+R powershell or Win->type powershell, hit enter and be going even faster.

There's an even faster way than sjwright's answer.

Type the windows key, then 'cmd', then press enter.

I really wish Windows 8 did a better job of teaching users, especially the quick ways to launch programs from the keyboard.

Win+X, C (or A if you need one as admin).

Right click the start menu in Windows 8.1. There is a command prompt (and admin command prompt) option.

Win+X then C for a Command Prompt. Or Win+X then A for an Administrative Command Prompt.

I find the new task manager much more informative and it often saves me from starting the resource monitor. The new file transfer log is also very fancy and useful, although that doesn't really count as a productivity enhancement.

As I said yesterday, any serious Windows user should be using Process Explorer as a replacement for the default Task Manager: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.asp....

(Some of the other sysinternal tools are worth their weight in gold as well)

With 8.1 Update 1 booting to desktop will be the default.

I sledom access windows based computers, but when I do, I'm always suprised how my perception of windows is skewed by media and internet trolls.

I find the choices they made quite acceptable and the windows 8(.1) as a very good OS for end user.

I don't understand the utility of this boot to desktop feature. The moment you want to do anything, you're back in the start menu launching programs.

What problem does it solve, besides moving the first thing you use to the second thing you use?

Many people also have pinned applications to the task bar. For 95 % of programs I launch I don't need the start menu or start screen at all.

Then why not pin those to the start screen, as well, and have an even larger mouse target for getting started that isn't at the bottom of your screen? (Unless you're using Win+1-9, in which case, ignore me)

My mother recently got a new laptop and wanted that new "windows 8.1 thingy and a touch screen" I dont think she even noticed that the start menu was gone.

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