Ask HN: MIT, Harvard, or Stanford? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: MIT, Harvard, or Stanford?

42 pointsluckyyy58 comments

In a similar vein to asselinpaul's post, I would love some feedback on deciding between MIT, Harvard, and Stanford for undergrad. I was fortunate enough to be accepted to all three, so now I'm in that tough (but amazing) situation where I have to choose one.

My background is in programming and mechanical engineering, but I think big and want to do more than just become an engineer at a company. I look up to people like Elon Musk, but I also realize that shaping my life after another's would be foolish.

MIT

+ Great engineering

+ Rigorous courses and student body

- Maybe not well-rounded enough for my long-term goals

Harvard

+ Amazing liberal arts (I'm all for being well-rounded)

+ Would teach me how to work with people

- Not known for engineering

Stanford

+ Great at engineering and liberal arts

+ Amazing network in the heart of Silicon Valley

- I live in the area and go to a private school nearby (I kind of feel like I need to explore the rest of the world)

I know I can't go wrong here, but I'd still love to hear your thoughts. I'm going to be visiting MIT and Harvard for the first time, so I'll make my final decision after that.

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If I had to do it all over again. I'd pick a place where there's a good state school with attractive girls and good pick-up basketball/soccer games and a good academic school with relatively open campus.

I'd then find a PT job doing programming and go to lectures at good academic school and then on weekends and in afternoon go to state school for parties and sports for well rounded education in theoretical CS, professional programming and personal liberal arts (not talking about the Hegelian dialectics, but how to hold you liquor, how talk to girls, how to drive and finish at the hoop, and budgeting and saving on your personal retirement plan/nest egg early).

But since youth is wasted on the young, I say Stanford. Since the youth craves some kind of redemption of respect but nowadays it seems like old East Coast prestige is out of style, there's still plenty of prestige at Stanford but you also get to play the 'SV rebel card' by going to Stanford, so you'll feel very secure and not have any "buyer's remorse".

My background: undergrad at UCSD, phd at MIT. Also taken courses at community college, san francisco state, private SF-based k-8, public high school (in marin county). I feel like I've sampled a wide range of US-types of education.

I'd consider if you have any idea whatsoever if you want to go to grad school or not. You'd be a fool to think you'd know now, but if you can project out a bit it helps.

If you want to go to grad school, that will end up mattering more because it's where you'll specialize. Undergrad is more for opening up your mind and creating early-stage networks. You'll get amazing networks at all 3 of those and ultimately can't fail. But the cultures are very different at each place, and I say that knowing 2/3 of those cultures very well.

Go to Harvard if you want to be a non-technical CEO. It won't be super rigorous (redonk grade inflation) but the surrounding egos will elevate yours and give you the confidence to do whatever you want (justified or not). That's something I saw in the transition from UCSD to MIT -- your peers will push you. There's also lots of good people running around, and your network will be super strong.

Go to Stanford if you want to be a technical CEO. You should probably leave the bay area for a bit, but you can also do that after college. It's not like Cambridge, MA is that crazy different in the same way that living outside the US would be, so don't think that level of geographic movement is so significant from years 18-22. Go study abroad your junior year for that (which I _highly_ recommend).

Go to MIT if you're more interested in being technical than CEO, but it's still possible. MIT culture values raw technical talent more than the other three (IMHO), and is very 'purist' in that respect. But people will be the most autistic compared to the other two, so if you want to learn to be a "normal" person go elsewhere. That said I loved MIT, and it was an amazing place to do a phd. It's full of super super smart people, and then normal smart people. Not many actually dumb people (all 3 will have that in different proportions), just many non-creative people.

I was in the Boston suburbs (Newton) for 6 years, during which my dad went to MIT for a graduate degree, and I myself went to Stanford for a PhD in CS. When I was an undergrad I sat in on a couple classes at Harvard. The caliber of student you will meet is roughly equal.

I think your undergraduate years are a great time to explore, so I would highly recommend leaving your comfort zone, whatever that might be. Moving away from the Bay Area is a great way to spread your wings. Taking several courses in a field that is different/challenging and potentially a minor field of study is another way to do that.

Use that experience as a lens to focus yourself on a graduate degree/entrepreneurial career. If you leave the Bay Area, and you want to do startups, definitely come back to Stanford for a master's degree, or even a business degree, and then do it. There is really no better place in the world for entrepreneurship.

Don't get fooled into thinking that your undergrad years have to be hyper focused in order to succeed. As a matter of fact, it's the best time to broaden your interests, and get to know understand the people who have the same interests as you. The best entrepreneurs build amazing social skills to complement whatever talents they have. They almost never start companies alone, and they have usually spent years working with friends/team. The most novel startups also usually combine ideas from multiple fields. Your undergraduate years are a great time to put those pieces together.

I went to Stanford for undergrad and am in business school at Harvard now. I'm incredibly grateful for both opportunities. But here's the thing: Stanford teaches you to love and to care and to have passion. Harvard teaches you to think and to act and to have impact. You should totally learn to do both, and you have time to do that - but if you pick one, go to Stanford.

I attended Carnegie Mellon and have worked with professors and given talks at MIT and Harvard. I don't know a lot about Stanford, except that I have never met anyone I actually liked who graduated from there (the same goes for Cornell, interestingly).

I'm not really the encouraging type, so I'll just try to address the negative points you put down for MIT and Harvard.

MIT: The curriculum at MIT absolutely is well-rounded. Did you know they have one of the best philosophy departments in the world? Also, check out the MIT Media Lab: they bring technology and creativity together in ways that no other organization can. The Media Lab's fellows range from engineers to comedians, and their director didn't even get a degree, but it's still one of the coolest places in the world to explore the confluence of ideas and application. MIT is also a leader in biology, chemistry, and medicine, so if you think you might want to apply your engineering education to one of those fields, MIT will definitely be a good place to park yourself for a few years.

Harvard: While you may hear more about Harvard Law and Harvard Medical School than their EECS department, that doesn't mean they don't have a top-flight program. In fact, when I was looking at grad schools long ago (for EE/applied physics), Harvard was easily one of my top choices because of the sheer number of professors there who have research interests in related fields. At the time, my interests were at the intersection of robotics and medicine, and there were no fewer than three professors there who would have been an excellent fit for Ph.D. studies in that arena (and, three is a pretty big number when it comes to picking the perfect Ph.D. advisor).

I also think staying in one place for too long can inhibit a person's drive to be creative. If I were you, I'd head to MIT or Harvard - they're both excellent schools, you'll get a fantastic education either way, and Boston is a really fun city. You'll also be a 6-hour flight away from western Europe... if you have a long weekend and some spare cash sitting around (hopefully from one of the many excellent Boston-area tech internships), London is just a bad night's sleep away.

One last thing, and I'm not 100% certain about this, but I've heard MIT and Harvard students can attend certain classes at a variety of schools in the area. So if you think your curriculum is lacking in art, you could, for example, take an illustration class at Mass Art. It works the other way around, too: my sister attended Mass Art and took a history class at Harvard one semester.

I went to MIT for undergrad. When I was a senior in high school, I had the same hold up you did: "Will MIT neglect my humanities?" Short answer: no.

MIT has a surprisingly strong humanities and arts department. All students are also required to take a wide range of different humanities (though no single class is required).

I found the student body itself to be the best bulwark against intellectual and creative stagnation. The students there are self-motivated enough that they create culture and stimulate each other.

Finally, students at this place put vehicles on top of buildings and do ninja art installations. None of your other choices can claim that. How well-rounded can they really be?

I'd vote for MIT because your peers will have more of a engineering / programming mindset.

Do you want to do business and build startups or be in a workshop building cool toys?

If you want to build businesses then Stanford would be a great place to go.

Stay focused! Good luck!

MIT or Stanford. If you want to be well rounded, read books.

Having gone through a similar process, and coming out on the other end, my impression is that it really doesn't matter which school you go to.

All that matters is how you spend your time. If you are serious about entrepreneurship, and serious about going off the beaten path (this takes some introspection, with data that may take some time to collect), then the time you spend in school is really just a minor asset.

You need to ask the question - who am I and what kind of role can/do I want to play in creating a business. And your time should be oriented to that, as opposed to spending an excessive time acing classes.

MIT '93 Mech E here (only ever worked as programmer, manager, or executive though). I agree with most of what's written, though I never found the winters to be unbearable (and still live in Cambridge now-love it here). If the weather is what matters to you, pick Stanford (duh), but that's an absurd way to pick a school, IMO.

MIT has great breadth available; it's all a matter of what YOU want to make it. If you want to graduate very unidimensional (deep excellence in engineering, skate by in all others), you can. If you want to be well-rounded, you can be, though not perhaps to the same extent of social network as Harvard. I really enjoyed the living groups situation at MIT (I was in a fraternity in Boston) and your living group choice makes a lot of difference in your experience here, at least IME.

I took a few humanities classes at Wellesley College. It was kind of a pain in the ass, and not worth it for the academic angle, but there were other factors involved...

Congrats on your situation. I'd repeat at MIT, I'd never have considered Harvard, and I was wait-listed at Stanford, eventually admitted, but I'd had my heart set on MIT, so when I got in there, it was an easy call and I couldn't be happier about my choice.

All three schools will give you a top flight engineering education. As a Harvard grad you will have world wide creds and wont be pegged as pure tech nerd. I am a Harvard grad, albeit nearly half a century ago and have resided in Silicon Valley for 45 years. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably go to Stanford. Better weather and prettier girls. In January walking around campus in Cambridge, you're not even sure what species they are.

Doesn't actually matter. Go where you like the people.

One thing that I think it's a bit under-rated is the amazing openness between harvard and mit, despite on surface they often act like rivals (i attended grad schools at both).

For example, the cross-registration is a huge benefit. and many classes on both campuses you can see students from the other school. MIT $100K startup teams long have Harvard students involved. Now, at Harvard i-Lab I already see many resident teams having MIT co-founders (am doing EIR there).

In other words, i see it as getting two for "price of one" in some way... : >

Nothing bad to say about Stanford -- its beautiful campus is built for studying/thinking. i love its d.school and am a huge fan (did a short course only). but when Harvard and MIT has its own d.school, then...

First of all, congrats! :) Those are all incredible schools, and you (honestly) won't regret going to any of them.

I recently graduated from MIT (undergrad, CS), have lots of friends who went to Harvard, and have family who went to Stanford (and I work in SF).

It's important to realize that college won't define your career. It's the first step where you'll learn fundamentals and deep-dive into real math, science, and literature. Just as important are the ways you spend your summers, the books you read, and the friends you make.

Also, there's no "perfect" fit of a school. I was passionate about music, and always wished MIT had a stronger arts department. But you should be open to the unexpected. I joined the rowing team on a whim, and became a Division I athlete-- something I would have never expected or planned.

With that said, here's what I've gathered:

MIT is hands-down the best engineering school in the entire world. In 2 years you learn more than most people do after a masters. Downside is that it's not very well-rounded, but that's kind of the point. As a friend's father once said, "You don't go to a candy shop to buy broccoli." People routinely make jokes about calculus and wear shirts that say "Nerd Pride." Places like the Media Lab are an amazing fusion of art/science/design/engineering, and MIT is a respected hub for world leaders. (I met the Dali Lama and Bill Gates in the same year.) MIT was the birthplace of most of the tech we use today. People like Richard Feynman went to MIT. At MIT I learned how to pick locks, spin fire, write LISP, and laser-cut my Christmas gifts.

Harvard will teach you to think about how the world works and how to organize people. Many people don't realize that Zuck was actually studying psychology at Harvard, and Facebook was predicated on how people think and interact. There's lots of "old money" at Harvard, and it's not the same kind of meritocracy as MIT. Some kids are olympians and others the sons/daughters of politicians. Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones lived across the hall from each other at Harvard. Harvard grads often go into finance, international relations, law, doctoral science studies, etc. Harvard has lots of grade inflation.

Stanford is a mix of the two, with incredible science+engineering, but also sports and liberal arts. You'll find the cliche fratboy bro, but then learned he aced his SATs. Palo Alto is beautiful and sunny, and the vibe is locked with the startup world. Professors regularly consult/advise companies, or leave to start their own. Apple/Google are involved on campus, and there's a true spirit of innovation amongst the students. (nb. distinct from invention.) In particular, graduates of the Symbolic Systems program often become Associate Product Managers at Google and/or found their own companies. (Snapchat/Instagram/etc.) They aren't as nerdy as MIT, but they're still wicked smart.

There's no "path" toward entrepreneurship, but there are many successful founders that started with a hardcore engineering background. (Elon Musk was actually planning to pursue a PhD in physics at Stanford before dropping out to start Zip2.) Rigorously learning first principles in mathematics, chemistry, physics, and programming is key to later taking-on large projects, like building rockets.

I would just say matriculate wherever has the people you want to spend 4 years around. It's your peers which push you and teach you the most, and later will become your cofounders or employees if you do a startup. Even if the school isn't perfect, you'll find your people and your own way.

(As an aside, I actually gave at talk at MIT last fall about how I got into startups and rounded-out my education. Just more datapoints for how I navigated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcCwUOsY_k )

Just make sure to major in science/engineering and work your ass off. :) Feel free to ping me if you have specific questions. I'm mg@mit.edu.

There was a reply that just got deleted. Here's an excerpt that was relevant.

If your interests change over the course of your first couple years in school, Harvard has a very solid program in basically any subject you can think of, and changing your field of concentration is very easy. If you decide what you really love is ancient middle-eastern history, or Russian literature, or whatever, MIT will be less convenient.

To also elaborate on the now-deleted comment...

I'm probably a bit too rough on Harvard's math/science departments. They are much more theoretical, meaning the graduates will work in labs or become professors rather than go into engineering. The commenter cited Math 55, which is indeed an incredible class. Many folks at MIT end up doubling math/CS or math/physics, so the pure math group is smaller there.

The "work your ass off" bit just means to not get soft and coast. When the carrot in front disappears, lots of people are lost. You need to learn to develop your own carrot and push yourself.

Oh, and I stand corrected. Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones were only across the hall as freshmen. They were roommates after that. :)

Heyy congrats on getting into all three schools!

I'm a CS concentrator here at Harvard and could give you some real advice when you come to visit; both the good and bad about coming here. Lucianoarango-at-college-dot-harvard-dot-edu

Next year, I'm going to be a freshman to Podunk University, Nowhere. I'm not very happy with my situation, but I know that it's one of my own making.

What sort of things - besides an academic excellence I didn't display in high school - should I do to break through into an upper-level school?

Thanks very much.

If you are not sure about MIT, don't go to MIT. Thats one thought I heard around campus at MIT.

It will be a good journey. Try to get laid.

MIT definitely has the most penetration of the 'hacker' culture. If it came down to MIT vs Harvard, I would personally choose MIT. Out of all three, MIT tends to be less elitist, from my personal experience.

"Less elitist" may not appeal to someone who announces on HN that he or she got into these three colleges. Harvard it is!

I can't really vouch for Stanford either way though, as I've never been there or really worked with Stanford grads/students close enough to have an opinion.

It's a very difficult choice. I interview students at both Stanford and MIT and have spent time on both campuses. They feel very different to me personally. I feel that you will gain more just from leaving your comfort zone and moving to a new place than simply picking based upon what the school has to offer. If you wind up picking Boston, make the most of it, say hi to me when I'm on campus, and make sure you take a bus/train/plane and spend some time in NYC while on the East coast :) (edit: Of course you can still say hi at Stanford, too!)

I totally agree about picking up and trying to live in a new place.

But all three of these schools do a pretty good job of letting students live in a bubble of sorts. The whole notion of leaving a comfort zone when going to one of them is different than say, moving to Nairobi.

Yeah, I've talked to people near Stanford, though, that had never even been to a city yet alone live in one. I'm just saying "baby steps". There is always time to take a semester abroad in Nairobi or go build houses in South Africa like one of my co-workers :)

Go wherever you find the best peer group. People you think are challenging and interesting and professors you get excited by.

For me it'd be between MIT and Harvard, particularly if I went to high school in California. You'll have friends that go to Stanford and if you really want the network more than anything get an MS there.

Just as an aside: Elon Musk went to Penn. You don't have to go to the school most widely known for what you want to do; any of these three will be fantastic.

I didn't go to any of these schools, but I still have an opinion. :-)

I think you should go to one of the Boston schools. Get out of the area where you grew up. All three of these schools are fine and academically, socially, and prestige-wise they all will serve your needs.

But your instinct to live somewhere else for a while is a good one, and distance from your family is helpful as well. Re-forging yourself is useful at that age (and several other ages down the road).

Are there any differences in the amount of loans you will need? I would take that into consideration if the schools are offering a wide range of estimated costs.

I can't personally say much about those three schools though. I might prefer to go to college out of state, just to live in more of the country. But I'm sure all three schools have good study abroad programs if you want to travel.

If you go to MIT you can cross-register for courses at Harvard as well. That would get you out of the area where you grew up, give you a great engineering degree, and allow you to better round out your liberal arts. I don't know how well that would fit into your specific degree requirements, but it might be something worth exploring while you're making your decision.

Just to note, almost nobody does this in practice. It's inconvenient and there's more than enough to take at MIT. Friends I had who cross-enrolled only did it for special subjects, like advanced Arabic or Russian.

They're better at humanities if that's a strong interest. But I agree otherwise :)

Go wherever you get the most amount of free money. In fact, your position is so advantageous that it might be worthwhile to see if you can leverage them against one another to get some perks. I have no clue whether or not this kind of negotiation would work, given how competitive each of these schools is, but it might be worth a shot.

Choosing a school doesn't make a difference. although If you're looking for a home away from home, I'd suggest Harvard. The place will give you everything you'd want in your life. It will give you new friends, new dreams, and the finest* cuisine. haha (past experiences)

*fake westernized cuisine

Like others said, you can't go wrong.

Visit all three, talk to students and faculty, and decide with your gut.

If you're really interested in entrepreneurial pursuits, Stanford is the way to go. They've got better infrastructure and guidance around it than anyone else.

Also, Boston is horrible weatherwise. You'll really regret it your first winter out there.

Boston weather isn't a reason to not go to MIT or Harvard.

I got into all three as well, 4 years ago. I chose Harvard. I would choose Harvard again.

Went to Harvard, had a bunch of friends and interacted plenty with people at MIT and would be happy to jump on the phone with you and give you a more in depth view of my experience. Email is in my HN profile.

Your email doesn't show up in your profile unless you add it to the about section. :)

:0! Thanks. Added.

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses! I know this may have come off as pretentious or brash, but I truly appreciate the input and will consider it when I'm visiting the schools.

Thanks again!

Not really adding to the discussion here. Out of curiosity, do you already have a mech engineering degree given you mention it in your background?

That being said, congratulations on the admissions! :)

They are all fine, but if I wanted to do startups, I'd probably go for Stanford due to location and networking. (I am a MIT dropout and know lots of people from all 3).

MIT and Stanford will be more helpful if you are planning to be engineer in the long run. And by long run I don't mean just employment, I am talking more along the terms of your identity. Having said that I don't think you could go wrong with either one. But the question to ask given your situation is do you think your school is going to play a very large part in what you achieve. It might play a small part but your actions are going to determine most of the outcomes. How much do you think Elon Musk is what he is for which schools he went to? I contend there might be a very small part. Congratulations and good luck.

The fact that you're even considering MIT means you should probably go there. It's not in the same league.

With no experience of any of three, All I can say congrats man. Damn! I am little bit jealous in a good way :)

Well you chose a rather appropriate username. Congratulations on getting into so many good schools!

If I had to pick, I'd go with Stanford due to it's location in the middle of SV.

What's your email? Shoot me one. cjbarber@stanford.edu

I think that Harvard has (and will continue to have) the most cachet as a degree. Unless you plan to drop out, Harvard is the clear choice.

don't forget dropouts at harvard have been doing pretty well : > (i.e., mark and bill)

Stanford!

Go to Harvard. If you're smart enough to get into all three, you're not going to school for the knowledge. You can learn that on your own. You're going to school to build a network, which is the most difficult and most important part of any successful venture.

Having friends who are worth billions of dollars will come in handy much more so than a slightly better calculus course.

There are millions of extremely brilliant people who end up nowhere. Their wasted potential is not a result of their lack of knowledge or technical ability, but their failure to establish a powerful personal network.

P.S. Elon Musk is a perfect example. He initially went to Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario (I'll bet your future net worth you've never heard of this place). Then, he transferred to UPenn because he realized he needed to establish a network in the way only an Ivy League school can.

What did he study at Queen's and UPenn? Economics, and later finished a dual degree in Physics. What did he do upon graduation? Dropped out of a Stanford PhD program in material science, started two successive software companies, an electric car company, and a rocket company.

Critical thinking is something you develop on your own through practice, and can be applied to any sphere of understanding once your mind is accustomed to it. Additionally, knowledge outside of basic fundamentals is irrelevant until you select a domain to specialize in. Finally, this knowledge is freely available on the internet (mostly from MIT, no less).

There's a big distinction between acquiring knowledge and learning how to think.

MIT pushed me to my limits, and taught me how to systematically accomplish what I previously thought were impossible tasks. All while maintaining a principled sense of rigor and focus. A lot of people who are "smart" just ace high school and never are truly challenged. Harvard has insane grade inflation, because the students there are used to getting As. [1]

The world has enough billionaires, but not enough fearless engineers. I've found it surprisingly easy to connect billionaires when you genuinely need it-- not just because you got drunk with them in your 20s.

[1] http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-...

I heartily agree regarding your point on rigor, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that, because of MIT's excellent online offerings, legendary engineers like Musk no longer need to be in MIT to experience the MIT rigor. They can do the courses in the summers, and hangout with MIT students to build their teams for their first few startups.

I vehemently disagree regarding grades. Grades are the stupidest measure of engineering ability. Paper tests are meaningless except as a measure for the most basic levels of competence in mathematics and physics. We are talking about people who push the state of the art. These people are often very annoyed by tests, since it is idiotic to use an extremely distant proxy (i.e. a test) for an ability like like engineering when it's much simpler (and infinitely more satisfying) to just practice engineering itself.

The only measure of an engineer's skill is his ability to built elegant systems. This cannot be taught through a course. It must be learned through iteration, and repetitive failure.

I absolutely agree with you in regards to grades. They are completely pointless; How does someone get an 'A' when they've missed over 10% of the questions on an exam? We should demand absolutely mastery in every subject, and thankfully we're starting to get the tools (in online courses) which allow us to do that.

There is one point though which I think you're not giving enough; schools like MIT and Standford are all about connections and networking. You go to an MIT or a Stanford to have a pedigree, and it opens doors and opportunities which wouldn't be there if you hadn't gone there.

I really hope that becomes the case! Honestly I learned most of my coursework from my peers, during late nights in the library or someone's dorm room. I haven't yet seen a compelling replacement for that yet, which is unfortunate.

I think the only thing worse than using grades as a measure of mastery is using an inflated grading scale. :P

> The only measure of an engineer's skill is his ability to built elegant systems. This cannot be taught through a course.

This can be taught through a course if said course requires you to build an elegant system. Many courses in engineering schools are project-based.

If you want to be a Senator, go to Harvard. You'll be playing beer pong with future big wigs.

Stanford and MIT are both great engineering schools. Stanford has a unique startup culture and great weather. MIT kids seem to dive deeper into the fundamentals, due to fewer distractions from class work.

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