The First World's Biggest Addiction | Hacker News Reader

The First World's Biggest Addiction

raptitude.com

33 pointstejbirwason27 comments

I take the point (and approve) of the article generally, this quote struck me as ill-founded:

> Why drink a liquid that costs a fortune and makes you fall down, unless you believe there is something seriously wrong with what you would otherwise feel like?

Maybe just because it's fun? This almost feels like an appeal to the naturalistic fallacy.

I'm an infrequent drinker (I drink perhaps 3-4 times a year), but when I do I get a kick out of it. I access a different state of mind that's extremely fun to be in. I'm moderately gregarious in general, but after a drink I become extremely outgoing and confident. I probably wouldn't enjoy being like that all the time, but it's a great place to be now and again.

The quote seems to imply that one might change one's mind state simply to escape - which should of course be approached with caution. I just think we should be careful not to lump that in with changing mind state simply for fun.

I think the quote refers more to people who use alcohol as a form of escapism.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of coffea that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

About 10 years ago I kicked my caffeine addiction. Now:

- the number and intensity of my headaches has reduced substantially

- I fall asleep in about 5 minutes rather than 120.

- I wake up without an alarm clock

- my energy levels throughout the day are regular

- and if they aren't, I can fix it with a 5 minute nap

- because I am no longer tolerant towards it, caffeine makes other drugs such as acetaminophen (aka paracetamol aka Tylenol) and acetyl salicylic acid (aka aspirin) much more effective.

- because I am no longer tolerant towards it, caffeine can be used as a powerful stimulant on the rare occasions when the need of such is a life and death situation. (aka driving late at night)

Kicking caffeine is hard. I recommend quitting gradually rather than going cold turkey, but even so I had a month of crippling headaches. I took time off work to do it. (More accurately, I took advantage of unintentional unpaid leave)

How much coffee were you drinking a day? I'm curious, because I kicked the habit about a month ago [0], and didn't suffer any ill effects. In fact, I actually felt really good the first few weeks. My habit, though, was relatively mild--I would, at most, have 3 cups of coffee a day.

[0] I am not 100% caffeine-free. I still drink decaf coffee, and will occasionally have a cup of green tea during the day.

I didn't drink a lot more caffeine than you. It's hard to say, since I my sources and timing varied a lot, which may have been part of my problem.

I had a lot of problems with headaches. That's why I quit caffeine, as an experiment to see if that was the cause.

The worst headaches were on the final week, when I was transitioning from very little caffeine to no caffeine.

Interesting. My wife had similar issues when she stopped drinking coffee, too. She didn't quit cold turkey, either.

I stopped because I suspected the caffeine was contributed to my border-line hypertension. While there isn't necessarily a hard link between caffeine consumption and high blood pressure, I figured it certainly couldn't hurt to stop drinking so much caffeine each day.

> - because I am no longer tolerant towards it, caffeine makes other drugs such as acetaminophen (aka paracetamol aka Tylenol) and acetyl salicylic acid (aka aspirin) much more effective.

Do you mean combinations of paracetamol + caffeine are now more effective for you? Or is pure paracetamol also more effective?

The combination is much more effective.

There are interesting points made here. Addiction can be (but is not always) a byproduct of ones dissatisfaction with life and is a very serious problem in every society.

That said, I think that this is just moral grandstanding. The author purports that alcohol and coffee (can't he just call them out rather than get cute about it?) are a means of escape and that escaping is a reflection of one's dissatisfaction with their current state. This is flawed logic. Why does the fact that I drink only mean that I am unhappy with my life in an unaltered state? There are so many other reasons that one might open a beer or brew a cup, there's no evidence at all (or at least none is presented) that it is simply a result of believing "there is something seriously wrong with what you would otherwise feel like?".

Substance abuse is serious and can happen very quickly, often as a result of personal issues. There's no doubt that you should always be wary of the reasons why you're drinking but you shouldn't feel guilty about escapism. Sports, music, art, literature, these are parts of our culture that many see as the great triumphs of our society and they are all forms of escape in themselves. I grant you that they do not have the same health effects and addictive properties that alcohol and caffeine do but that is not really a point that the author wanted to make in the first place. There's nothing wrong with wanting to step outside of yourself to enjoy the faculties that being human and alive allow us to enjoy. Go ahead man, this buds on me.

On caffeine addictions, I found Bryan Alexander's "A year without Caffeine" posts really interesting:

  http://bryanalexander.org/2013/01/04/a-year-without-caffeine/
  http://bryanalexander.org/2013/01/06/a-year-without-caffeine-part-2/

Good read. Except I drink coffee in the morning so I can look at what I've programmed in the afternoon and not wonder what the heck I was doing. i.e. Not to avoid an 'uncomfortable' state of mind, just to increase performance. Maybe that's just the same thing though? idk.

I agree, morning coffee doesn't seem to apply here. Smoking would be a better example.

Strangely enough I started to feel the same with morning tea, until I quit having any. Now I function "normally" even in the morning and can take a "boost"(hardly noticeable) if needed as long as it's not more than a few times per week or so.

It still sucks having nothing to sip on though. Taking a glass of water instead helps this somewhat.

There is conflicting evidence the enhancing powers of coffee, but it seems like it isn't a cognitive enhancer for the kind of activities we're talking about here, and might even be detrimental (tasks that depend on working memory), except maybe for 'suboptimal alertness conditions'. So you're probably better off overall getting a good night sleep and saving coffee for those times when you can't. -Hi, my name is cottonseed, and I'm a coffee addict.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20182035 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_caffeine_on_memory

> So you're probably better off overall getting a good night sleep and saving coffee for those times when you can't.

Such as when you have a 5 week old baby sharing a bedroom with you. I've never been shy about drinking coffee, but the amount I've consumed in the last month is terrifying. I'm actually trying to be a bit more sensible about it after a horrible caffeine comedown recently, which could have competed with those in my past from far harder substances!

I'm so glad I quit drinking coffee before having kids. Being able to fall asleep easily at almost any time is a great benefit when you may be woken up easily at any time!

I highly recommend drinking a cup of hot water in the morning. Actually at least some of the benefit of a cup of coffee is the warming effect on the body. (Which is why showers are a great way to wake up in the morning) You also can't discount the placebo effect which is equally effective even if you know it's a placebo. Oh also hydration is important for wakefulness. It's also just damn comforting to have a warm drink, especially in the morning. I normally drink 2-3 cups of hot water each morning.

Everything applies, according to the article and the linked article too.

But as usual, there's no sense on just getting rid of everything that defines humans:

You might be in a small fishing boat, waiting for something to happen, it is cold, why not take some coffee out of the termo, why not have a cig, just to feel a bit like home, and wander on the surroundings?

Consuming caffeine reduces my ability to make uncomfortable decisions, and I use it to numb myself from the consequences. I see that pattern in other people too. As long as I am in a productive flow, caffeine is not a problem.

Worth reading to the end. It's not just about coffee, but really about dependence on things which distract us from uncomfortable moments, and why it might be worth trying to reduce dependence on these things.

"uncomfortable moments" will never end.

Then is it bad for some people to live in constant avoidance state? Alcoholism until death, anti-depressants until you stop breathing or jump off the building.

Facing uncomfortable is best case for me also, it brings more rewards. But should I fight for someone who is constantly avoiding uncomfortable moments.

Should I look at fellow human being and tell him that this is bad, this will get you nowhere?

The number of addictive occupations we've invented for ourselves seems to grow exponentially at the moment; beyond drugs and physical addiction we have Facebook, games from WoW to FarmVille, 24-hour news reporting or just owning a smartphone which you have to check every 2 minutes.

Although we tend to minimize the topic, reducing it to a minority with "addictive personalities" I believe managing our addictions and learning how to break habits will become a huge topic for us in the next 10 years

There's a nice movie that touches the topics of addiction, dependence and dreams: The Congress (2013): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/

That film is a strange and wonderful thing. And an altogether more serious work than the reference i came here to give:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2225

Just as an experiment to see how addicted I was, I stopped drinking coffee for the past week - was a huge awakening on how dependent I was (both physically and socially). Some reflections:

- I probably could not do this if I had to go into an office

- Headaches went away after day 4

- After day 4 I felt generally sharper/more motivated

- I feel much better after workouts

I highly recommend the exercise to others, good way to explore your limitations.

This is not about coffee... skim through the article before you comment.

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