Hypercard reimagined – an iOS app maker and private app store | Hacker News Reader

Hypercard reimagined – an iOS app maker and private app store

pencilcase.io

75 pointsmetatation48 comments

This looks interesting to me, but doesn't Apple hate apps that are too much like the App Store? The Private App Store description seems like it would make it a target for the ban hammer.

Yyyyup.

I'd only give these guys money if "AppDrop" isn't part of the value proposition for you.

(It isn't for me! An app toolkit that works like HC sounds fantastic - I wish they weren't muddying the waters with this app-store business.)

I wouldn't mind being able to send apps to my friends and everything without having to pay another amount to Apple for a developer account. But I don't think it's going to happen.

It's certainly a bit of a subversive concept. Personally I think it's about time that the app distribution model was updated to allow people to share apps with each other. I think the idea here is to add a separate, small, side-distribution channel that you can use to send apps to friends and testers. Once you're done you can certainly market them in the Apple app store.

I think that would be fine with Apple as long as were only able to open apps sent to you, and there's no price attached.

One of the PencilCase devs here, thanks for your question.

We've already been using AppDrop with clients and it's been great for them to distribute apps to their own users.

All price levels get access to AppDrop Community which lets you easily share your creations with a link. The Corporate and Founding Partner levels will also get their very own, configurable custom-branded PencilCase AppDrop store.

That makes a little more sense. I'm very interested in this project. I might actually jump on board after I see it in action for a few months.

There's clearly a lot of power to do a lot of neat stuff, plus some really brilliant features for businesses trying to create their own apps (like importing graphics from PowerPoint).

But I'm most curious to see how it will support building little CRUD apps that so many businesses could use to smooth their workflows. How will the data validation and forms stuff work? I see they mention key-value sync—can you get the data out for analysis in other products?

Regardless, I'm thrilled. I wish more software was available to let people solve their own problems with computers, rather than looking for an app-for-that.

There is an HyperCard inspired tool that is very similar and works on Mac OS X, Windows, Linux and is able to deploy to all those platforms plus Android and iOS.

Its a wonderful tool and very easy to learn. It is also GPL.

http://livecode.com

The only license I see on the LiveCode site is at http://livecode.com/LiveCode-EULA/ and that specifically mentions that it's not GPL-compatible.

> h) For the avoidance of doubt, this [Commercial] Licensed Edition does not include access to the LiveCode engine source code found in the Community Edition. This Licensed Edition is not compatible with the terms of the GPL and such software may not be incorporated or utilized with this Licensed Edition.

So they've dual-licensed it. The Community Edition source on Github is all GPL with this exception: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/51e3958082d9edd645...

This is a great evolution of the open source SpriteBuilder. Kudos to the developers for putting something together that really looks usable by the average Joe - like Hypercard. On the other hand, I doubt many average Joes still know the reference to Hypercard.

Don't disagree re the average Joe, but as a semi-technical Joe without the chops to really code this is exciting. I'd like to see more non-game demos to better appreciate the scope, but SalesForce integration screams small and medium business use-cases.

The allegory to HyperCard is interesting as HyperCard had its own programming language, HyperTalk.

Same with Macromedia Director, which also had Lingo (which was similar to HyperTalk). I never considered those apps as "no programming required" but more like "less programming required"

I agree with you. As someone who started 'programming' with Lingo it was easy to build some great products with minimal knowledge. That I then taught myself to program, using Perl initially, is an aside but I would not have done it without using Lingo first

unless this is programmable in javascript, how is it allowed by apple?

and if it is javascript, then it's missing a key feature of hypercard that made it accessible, hypertalk.

here's another hypercard inspired app: http://infinitecanvassuite.com/

It's a little confusing what functionality is where. I get the sense it's a OS X development suite (à la Adobe's ability to publish native iOS apps) with some kind of app companion (to include AppDrop?).

I think it remains to be seen exactly how much "programming" you can do natively on iOS

HyperTalk could be done in JS as an intermediate compilation step. (Which we know because that's exactly what TileStack did before it died: http://www.cnet.com/news/tilestack-hypercard-comes-back-from... )

Hi there, I'm one of the PencilCase devs that worked on the JS engine. The easiest way to get started with PencilCase is using events and actions in the GUI, no programming required. If you want more control you can program in JavaScript as well with access to all of the objects on your cards, web requests, etc. You get the best of both worlds.

That helps. Thanks

This looks great. I think highlighting a bit more of the actual app side (rather than creating games) would be beneficial. Lots of features in the video for games, but nothing about tableviews etc.

Thanks for the GREAT feedback!

Here is what we cooked up this morning in the hotel, table views for demo today. All classic CocoaTouch controls will be in the first release.

http://vine.co/v/MOx5Xd7vMIJ

As someone how doesn't know what hypercard is, I have a hard time understanding what this is. Maybe a couple of concrete use case at the top of the webpage would be helpful?

As someone who does know what Hypercard is, I'd like to see the same thing, and also, a glimpse at what the code looks like.

Hypercard was what I first started developing on back when I was young. Great to see it come to life again.

Javascript instead of Hypertalk though... ;)

Me too! (Well I started first in basic, but HyperCard was where I did my real first programming)

I made so many crazy games in HyperCard. I had no idea what I was doing either; I had countless hidden fields that I used to store data, serialized with my own custom format.

I loved it though. So much fun!

My biggest 'magic' moment in hypercard was this technique called one-card animation that I copied out of some book. It was basically a script to direct the lasso tool to select an area on the screen, then slowly drag it across the screen. Having it work seemed magical in that I had told the computer what to do and it listened. Been hooked on making software ever since!

Your magic moment reminded me of my first one (although a much less exciting one than yours!)

I was 7 years old and reading my first BASIC programming book... I read how to use a PRINT statement, and ran into my parents room exclaiming how I could print something to the screen!

I have been hooked ever since.

Wow, this looks like the beginning of something big!

If half of these features are solid, you guys will do really well.

What is appdrop? Sorry but the website is really all over the place.

It's a "private app store" (their words)—a catalog of published apps developed in PencilCase. A named feature within the app, insofar as I understand.

I got a little annoyed with the excessive use of "TM" everywhere.

Looks great but many items are not described in full, and the comparison table is not clear on the differences/advantages between the two.

Is there something like this for kids? Been teaching my kids to program and I cant find one easy enough to use (ages 5-9) outside of PPT (yes, I consider slide transitions programming). Scratch is ok but its not fun enough for them or maybe too advanced.

What would you expect a 9 yo to accomplish regarding programming? What do you teach them? (it's just a question,not a criticism,before you downvote in mass)

Having used scratch (very cool) I have been using the beta to teach them things like - this image is an ~object~ and it has properties. Look how we can tell it to change these properties over time etc. Its more conceptual than "this is the syntax of an if statement in objective-c". Pretty cool so far (as cool as scratch, just different)

From what I've heard of HyperCard and learning programming languages, children definitely could create a small game, short animation or interactive story. At nine years old, it would probably be rudimentary, but they could learn the basics. Without meaning to be rude, this question's like asking "What would you expect a nine year old to accomplish regarding writing and drawing?"

If you don't like that analogy, consider how children often learn the basics of woodworking or sewing through small projects that might not be useful or even be completed. Programming could work the same way.

   >"What would you expect a 
   >nine year old to accomplish 
   >regarding writing and drawing?

I'm no teacher, i dont have kids and dont remember myself being one. My question is about the content of the teaching.What does the the parent teach them, and how he does it,nothing more . I'm not sure what your point is.

Programming tools like Logo and HyperCard give children a chance to be creative, like writing and drawing do.

Beyond self-expression, children could learn the basics of

* interaction design ("'Click here' doesn't explain what a button does"),

* debugging ("It's okay to be wrong at first. I can just keep fixing it until it works")

* and geometry ("I can make a shape look more like a circle if I give it more sides").

EDIT: Here's a neat example of HyperCard's power: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568. It's a bit complicated for a child, but it gives you a sense of HyperCard's potential.

I started coding at the age of 10 on a ZX Spectrum back in the early 80's with BASIC.

So I would expect a 9 year old to be able to write simple programs, drawing simple 2D figures or question/answer programs.

I started programming in HyperCard around age 7-8. The first things I did were basically interactive stories - think Myst with stick figures and a really childish plot/simplicity. Drawing pictures, placing buttons over them that took you to different pictures with more buttons. Dialogs with questions and multiple choice answer buttons. Eventually adding variables that would remember things that happened before and use those to change behavior later in the game.

I also had fun composing really bad melodies with the HyperCard sound command (that let you enter notes - it'd scale whatever sound effect in pitch)

edit: the greatest learning tools for me were all the included sample stacks. Tearing apart and editing those and the code that made them tick was an amazing learning experience ("oh! so instead of making 50 buttons, I can make one button, and do this thing with the mouse position and some math [something they make me do in school that I otherwise find pointless] and figure out which section was clicked!")

    10 print "my name"
    20 goto 10

And move on from there?

Also, while this tale starts with seventh grade (13 years old?) -- I should think kids these days start out considerably more computer literate:

"Learning About Smalltalk" http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc1/showpage.php?page=61

"My name is Marian Goldeen. (...) I would like to tell you about how I got started working with computers at Xerox and the class I taught."

I don't have a direct answer for you (still researching), but if you haven't read Mindstorms by Seymour Papert [1], I highly recommend it. It's generally about how computing can help kids learn problem solving in a variety of contexts, including several bits about the LOGO programming language. It's from '88, so it is definitely dated, but many of the concepts are pretty timeless.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Mindstorms-Children-Computers-Powerful...

You might also find the free community edition of LiveCode[1] handy. At a glance, looks very much like HyperCard. There is also Microsoft's Project Sienna[2] if you are on Windows 8.

[1] http://livecode.com/download/ [2] http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/microsoft-projec...

So can PencilCase apps be deployed as standalone iOS apps? Or only in AppDrop?

Cool! Will look forward to seeing it when it comes out...

Looks awesome, can't wait to try it out

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