KeyMe – Copy keys and solve lockouts
key.me
key.me
And, guess what I tried: grinding off the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" instructions with an angle grinder, and getting copies made anyway.
I walk into the hardware store, and ask the clerk for a copy. The guy glances at it, and gives me a funny look, and says:
You got the card?
Card? Uh... Ah, nah man, not on me.
Pause and a long look... Okay, $25 bucks. Pay in cash.
...long pause. I look at the key prices, and a Mul-T-Lock copy is priced at $5. The guy's obviously inflating the price of the copy as an implicit bribe to do something he's not supposed to do. Fuck it. Let's see where this goes.5 minutes later and I have a copy that works perfectly.
Next week, the super changes the lock on the front door, distributes new keys to all tenants and tells us that the master was reported stolen.
Congrats on your success thus far, wishing you the best!
FYI: Your footer is missing a link for getting updates: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpipzrhrnigj1nb/Screenshot%202014-...
He may not have turned you in, by name or by face, and he may not have turned you in specifically to your landlord, but he could have. And the coincidence suggests that the word went out and that your landlord took action in response.
As for the "master" key thing: Master keys can often be made by filing off a tiny bit of a non-master key. That's how they work. So, when you requested a copy of your key, you may really have raised the suspicion that you were about to go home, take out a file, make a master key, and go on a fun round of housebreaking.
(Obviously, you would not turn your original key into a master, because then when your landlord or the cops asked you to produce it, it would be tampered with.)
Incidentally: Because master keys are variations on the shape of non-master keys, your key doesn't need a "serial number" or embedded chips to match it up with other keys from your building.
I've thought about trying to make a crude 3D printed copy now, with a current generation printer, and polishing the ABS with acetone, to produce a higher quality copy manually.
The resistance of the springs on my building's outer door lock give a pretty smooth, low-resistance action that plastic (or maybe even wood, but not hard wax or soap) might tolerate, but then I'm paying $3,000 for a copy...
I'd be astonished if that hardware store didn't have surveillance video of you.
Incidentally, the trick where you test someone's level of guilt by massively overcharging them, then seeing if they pay without a peep, is straight out of G.K. Chesterton's The Blue Cross:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/204/204-h/204-h.htm
I'm thrilled to learn that this hundred-year-old mystery-story trope also works in real life!
http://gothamist.com/2009/08/08/locked_out_of_apt_woman_fall...
It's more common than you think!
It sounds like you were talking with someone who had a clue and could quickly, but with additional effort, reproduce a key via a duplicator like this: http://www.lockpicks.com/w333l-sidewinderkeyduplicator.aspx which is fine, but dramatically less convenient than an automated code cutter.
Is this type of key common in the US? A few years back I bought a lockpicking set, and locks like these are incredibly easy to open without much training.
In Switzerland we have KABA locks pretty much everywhere. I don't know but I think they're much harder to pick and I guess you can't reconstruct them out of a photo because you don't know the depth of the holes.
Also you need the key and lock the door from the outside with it, so you can't really lock yourself out. Doors that snap lock are incredibly rare here.
Photo: http://www.kaba.ch/media/466464/v6/resized535x-1/dunkelrot-f...
Homeowners obviously have more choice in the locks they use, though.
It's always seemed like a safety hazard to me with interior-locking doors. When I stayed with a friend in Paris, I was locked inside their flat when they left early for work.
Here is an alternate solution: http://imgur.com/inJp7zB
Yes, picking a lock is much quieter but the reality is most break-ins emphasize the word "break".
That's the basic principle of security. Be it crypto, physical security or anything else.
You're always just buying time. So the question is how much time do you want to buy.
If you can kick down the door in 2 seconds you just have a very low security margin. Compare this with crypto where you measure security margins in years. I'm just a bit baffled that it's that low for apartments in the US.
You probably couldn't kick down most doors here. Well at least I couldn't.
One reason is the way we build houses. It's easy to break into our houses through their windows or from their back door, so it makes little sense to secure their front doors with fancy locks. Instead, we rely on alarms, guard dogs, our neighbors, or guns. Compare our exposed apartments here to those in, say, Paris, which have barred windows, or to houses in the middle east, which are walled off from the street.
Here is some sales data from KeysDuplicated.com that you might find interesting (we're in the same business as keyme, though we mostly operate in the background, as a service provider to other businesses): about 45% of our US orders are standard Schlage keys, which are relatively easy to pick. About 25% of our US orders are Kwikset keys, which are absolutely trivial to pick. About 90% of the requests we receive from the Middle East are mind-bogglingly complex and would take hours to pick. Our French orders are somewhere in the middle.
Anyway, to answer a question that might have been lurking in your comment: those dimple keys aren't any more difficult to duplicate by photo than other keys. The image analysis is similar, and cutting them on our machines is straightforward. They're just hard to pick. And in case you were going to ask, we don't copy them at KeysDuplicated because that usually goes against the intent of the owner of the key.
I would say they're right to use relatively simple locks too. I've known several people who have had their homes broken into through kicking down doors or breaking windows. I've never even heard of a break-in by picking a lock. Why make everybody's locks much more expensive and harder to duplicate when lockpicking attacks are virtually nonexistent in the real world?
I have no idea how many people they signed up ... but the salespeople and the kiosk are now gone. Anybody, from the neighborhood, that signed up expecting to be able to go back to that kiosk to print a replacement key are out of luck.
I'm not saying a physical key is perfect or doesn't have most of the same issues (lost, theft, etc.), but why create a larger attack surface through a medium you have potentially less control of?
For convenience.
Yes. The convenience of someone else who is targeting you.
But, if the KeyMe user database is hacked along with personal information (billing address), then it becomes an issue.
Also, if you lose your phone and have emergency contact information (or can lookup the address associated with the phone number), then the thief also knows where to go.
I open sourced the app:
https://github.com/andrewseddon/dittokey-iphone
and computer vision:
https://github.com/andrewseddon/keyify
No production ready, complete hack, but it does work. The vision side is an interesting problem. This was a while back and i was dealing with older cameras. I should imagine with modern phone cameras it's a pretty simple problem.
My wife and I are looking into coded door locks (infant at home and the wife is afraid of locking herself out and the baby in) and found there's a $219 dollar door lock you can open with your phone. May make more sense then this solution.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPTD5AQ/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=178...
In all seriousness though, I've been waiting for my Lockitron for almost a year now, and others have been waiting for much longer. At this point, there's no way I can recommend Lockitron to anybody as anything more than a cool concept.
1 year after preorder they had to process the amazon payments preorders or amazon would void them. So here I am almost 2 years since I preordered a product that I've paid for, and they can't even give me an expected ship date.
Of course they continue to send marketing emails/self congratulatory accomplishments about software updates and hardware fixes for a product that doesn't exist.
Lockouts are convenient for sure... but still the low occurrence rate makes proactive sign up a tough proposition.
In a couple of months I expect to see a HN story that is a google search of geotagged images of keys.
I am more interested in the DUPLICATION service, considering the failure rate of keys I get from Home Depot, etc. (50% at best).
Guess, an encrypted file that's kept near the lock (like QR code kept at friendly neighbor's place or in your own postbox) which is decrypted and shown to a locksmith only when necessity arises would be a better idea. Unless, well, you forget the passphrase (which has to be strong) to decrypt the key.
(Yep, they may kept data encrypted, and they probably do, but one has to trust on their word for that.)
If you add a Z-Wave controller like SmartThings, there are many options, including with keypads if you don't have your phone: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?field-keywords=z-wa...
If having a physical key image stored elsewhere is a concern, then a keyless combo lock is probably the simpler alternative. You just remember your key code (hopefully) and don't need to carry anything besides your memory.
If you lose both, well, there's only so much you can reasonably protect against.
And yes, I suggested a "keyless" code lock in case you lose the key ;)
In an emergency condition, the simplest action (the one with the fewest steps, protocols or devices) you can take to recover completely is the best action. Losing your key and phone while being chased by muggers (for example) is just such an emergency. If you have enough faculties to remember your key code, you can still enter your home even if you're naked.
I like to think of services like KeyMe, which I do think is a fantastic idea, as an extra nicety during non-emergencies.
Being able to get into my house immediately even after losing both phone and keys is not a priority for me. If I'm being chased by a criminal near my own house after losing my keys and phone, I'll just shout until the neighbors come out.
Otherwise this is pretty awesome idea, that unfortunately highlights that it is high time our locks got more secure.
https://keysduplicated.com/API
Its perfect for businesses that need access to the home, like cleaning and delivery services.
They now have an API too, and are targetting commercial used.
It's fairly trivial to look at common key blanks and visually identify the bitting (the "combination" of cut heights necessary to move the tumblers in the lock to the shear line). Sometimes the key has the bitting stamped right on it, numerically, too.
Later that night, or when I know the guy is on vacation, I empty his house.
Yay for thieves.
A store clerk might be telling me to wait a bit for the key to duplicate, but in reality call the cops on me; there are cameras in hardware shops which can identify me and the bundle of keys and also there are other customers in the store.
So, I don't think these services really change the game at all, but perhaps provide a new level of information to the general public?
Hopefully, as a rule, people would tend toward protecting their keys. Here's a gorgeous Cartier key protector: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25421384_a-cartier-of-lo... if you want to do it style.