Why I killed my standing desk
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(I have this problem whenever I start running after a long break. My cardio system is in relatively good shape from cycling. But the muscles used by running aren't. So I end up with shin splits after the first run. You have to start at an insanely low intensity: walk 20 minutes, run 30 seconds. For a month. Add 10% a week after that.)
For standing, HN recommended an anti-fatigue mat. I got one yesterday, and so far, I am noticing less fatigue while standing. Who would have guessed.
In 2010 I started wearing Vibram Five Fingers exclusively. In 2011, I started wearing Huaraches [1] which are even more minimalist than Vibram FFs (and a lot more natural--when I'm not barefoot, I wear huaraches), then in 2012 I went straight barefoot.
In September of 2012, I ran 17 miles non-stop [2], barefoot (all types of surfaces, including rain). And note that I went from running on average 2-5 miles a day to deciding one day that I'd just keep running.
I had never experienced such freedom and I can now run what feels like any distance, as long as I'm running barefoot (my current goal is a marathon, then an ultramarathon).
As others have mentioned, it takes time to let your body adapt. I've been using a custom-built IKEA standing desk [3] for the past year. For the past few months, I stand 8-10 hours a day at this desk while working (barefoot, of course, on a hardwood floor). But, I also walk 2-5 miles every day (~10k steps).
If you want to start standing at a desk all day, start by walking a lot more so that your body learns what it's like to be on your feet for longer periods of time. Oh, and don't just stand at the desk for 8 hours. I take a break every 2-3 hours and go for a 10-15 minute walk to keep my muscles moving.
[1]: http://shoestringfootwear.com
[2]: http://i.imgur.com/ec7mYgB.png
[3]: https://twitter.com/RaamDev/status/320593781240000514/photo/...
I still run with the zero drop shoes small distances from time to time, but it doesn't look like I'll ever be able to get the the point where I can run as fast and/or as long as with regular running shoes. Granted, I'm a relatively fast runner (usually 9km in 45min) and it may work better for lighter running.
Do you do the less non-typing part of coding while standing too? (Drawing stuff on paper, imagining scenarios where that solution won't work, etc...)
I got lazy about standing all day, and am in the building-back-up stage again. My goal is for a couple of hours everyday, eventually increasing that to 8. Currently I stand up when I feel like I'm tired of sitting down, and sit down when I'm tired of standing up.
I work as a teacher. I don't sit down much in a typical working day, so I found that sentence strange to say the least. Then I realised that I don't stand still ever in the classroom. I'm effectively walking around my patch of savannah all day like our ancestors did, occasionally sitting or squatting down to talk to students on their work.
Perhaps it is the lack of movement that is the problem?
I have a bar running across the bottom of the desk 1 foot off the ground. I can put my foot on it, so I can bend my legs and move around quite a bit.
Trying to just stand stationary all day, which appears to be what the OP was trying to, sounds very uncomfortable and counter productive. The whole point (at least for me) isn't to not-sit-all-day, but to able to move legs through the day.
The desk itself is electric height-adjustable which makes it easy to switch between walking/standing and sitting with the push of a button, and the monitors are mounted on arms so I can move them to the correct height when I switch positions.
It took some getting used to before I could walk for extended periods of time, but now I don't really think about it anymore, I just start walking and before I know it, an hour has gone by. That said, I have found that it's hard to really concentrate while walking. If I find myself in the middle of a particularly difficult programming problem, I'll often need to sit down before I can really think about it.
But there's a lot of time throughout the day where I'm not doing anything that's super mentally challenging, like reading HN :) or catching up on email or finishing light programming tasks, and I try to walk as much as possible during those times.
At this point I typically walk between 1-3 hours total per day, and end up alternating between walking/standing/sitting every hour or so. Sometimes after sitting for a while I find myself starting to feel sleepy, switching to walking at this point usually wakes me right back up and keeps me going. Not sure, why, probably a circulation thing.
The setup wasn't particularly cheap to put together (though you could certainly do it for a lot cheaper than I did), but after a year I've concluded the cost was totally worth it considering how many hours of my life I spend (and will continue to spend) in front of a computer.
There are variations of this model available, but the main points are:
1. Screen (even if laptop) and keyboard/mouse are separated so everything is exactly at the correct height (= ergonomic, won't become a pain!)
2. You can pull up (and push down) the whole thing very easily, with just 1 hand/no force: This means you can change whenever you feel the slightest issue. Changing every 10 minutes easily becomes a healthy no-brainer routine.
First, I'm guessing the author's standing desk was simply not the right height for him. The "$22 Ikea" is a fixed height and I suspect he never adjusted it to something comfortable, customized for his height.
Second, as someone said earlier, he approached it like it was some kind of marathon - he planned to stand at the thing all day, right away. You actually have to work up to using a standing desk -- alternate sitting and standing and slowly increase the amount of standing time.
Details here: http://redd.it/kfjet
1. It seems to be referring to a very old version of the Cornell page. For instance, it says the Cornell page only cites one source. The current page cites seven sources in the references section, and one in the body of the article.
2. The one source cited in the old version of the page was concentrating on musculoskeletal disorders. It found benefits to using an electric height-adjustable work surface. The EHAW resulted in a minor increase in musculoskeletal discomfort, and a substantial decrease in the severity of upper body musculoskeletal symptoms. The Cornell article does not contradict this. It says that they have found that standing desks increase the risk of some musculoskeletal problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome. Together, these are just saying that standing can help with some kinds of musculoskeletal problems, and harm with others. The Cornell article is also considering a wider range of potential problems than the EHAW study considered, and has the benefit of being written 8 years after the EHAW study and so can take into account subsequent research.
The bottom line is that sitting too much is bad for you, and standing too much is bad for you. That's the conclusion of the Cornell article, and nothing in the EHAW study (which was done by the same people that did the Cornell article) contradicts that.
In regards to the 135 degree suggestion, I've found this doesn't work well for me, my lower back hurts, and also it encourages me to stick my chin forward which puts pressure on your neck. Could be a result of body shape or specifics of my setup though.
The first two weeks were incredibly difficult. After that you could feel the adaption kicking in, and by about a month I was able to stand for six hours at a time - punctuated by the usual trips to the kitchen and toilet several times per day of course.
Forget getting into the zone in this time. Compared with my peers, I would say I'm fast to adapt physically to new 'stresses' (from weight training and running in my experience), so I would judge this to be towards the 'best case' end of the scale.
Definitely agree that the author of this post threw in the towel too early. Standing for a full day is no mean feat. You wouldn't expect to run a marathon after two weeks of training having never run before.
My feet hurt for the first few days, but after some experimentation with different footwear (I ended up with a pair of orthopedic sandals as the most comfortable), a soft mat to stand on, and a 5-10 minute break each hour, I had no issues after the first couple of weeks.
I'm pretty sure that moving is better than either standing or sitting. Since walking around isn't very compatible with working on a PC, I expect that an adjustable desk is pretty much the best we can do. Along with switching between standing and sitting, frequent breaks, and suitable footwear.
I also don't strictly stand still. I'm always moving around a bit, even if it's just from one side of the desk to the other (it's a Geekdesk Max with a large (78.75" wide) desktop).
Nowadays I'm regularly on my feet for about 10 hours a day and just dont think about it that much. I do often walk around the office and constantly shift my weight around, which helps.
I agree with you about the neck for the 135 degree thing.
Personally, I am more focused when standing. I feel more active and less likely to get bored. Also, I frequently walk a few steps when I need to think about something.
I used to have my brightest ideas when I stood up from my chair to go to the toilet, or while showering in the morning. Now I just walk a few steps from my desk and look out the window, or get a glass of water. This keeps my body busy while my mind is churning on something. It works for me.
I like it when sources are not cited, and when you compare a community to a country (sample size significance problem??) and when you forget completely about the recent scandal in Japan of having people dead for long (like people at 130-140 years old...) still registered as living (these points in the data make the average move very sensitively).
Japan's data for life expectancy is a joke, seriously.
The tiniest tweak to standing desk height can make a big difference in resulting posture and comfort. (My exact height preference even changes from day to day, perhaps due to varying shoes or recent levels of other activity.)
I suppose long writing/coding is a bit more active/upright (higher), while long reading/browsing tends to involve a forward or alternating side-lean (lower). Shoes, time of day, and other recent exertion seem to be factors as well. And I alternate to seated, for hours or sometimes days at a time, for variety.
I suspect I'm more likely to start a new project or do many small independent tasks while standing, and more likely to work-through a lengthier, involved task while seated... but I haven't kept careful notes.
What I'd really like is some way to sit on an exercise bike (I believe they're called "stationary bikes" in some places) and still be able to use a keyboard and mouse. Not sure how that would work, but if I could figure it out I'd be rich and skinny before you know it!
Since I normally work from a home office my wife has been trying to talk me into buying one. I probably would not use it enough because I have four different working locations at home.
One more thing: a "get up and walk timer" is a good idea. On days when I don't use a timer, I don't feel as physically comfortable at the end of a long work day.
On the other hand, walking around for hours isn't bad at all, so maybe there's something specific about standing still that creates more exertion?
My father is on his feet all day. He delivers bread to grocery stores. He is constantly speed-walking. He usually has about a 10 minute drive between stores, where he of course sits in his truck, and spends about 45 minutes in each store.
Now that I work from home, sometimes I take a shower to think. That's only tangentially related.
The fix for this (and most things that office people think they have discovered) is well known in the working world. You just need a tall stool to slouch on from time to time. There is a place between sitting and standing.
I had a standing desk for a while, and I also had to have a stool. Actually, I built the stool, because I didn't have any money at the time, but I did have plenty of scrap wood. I then had to move to a new city, so I no longer have access to the shop where I used to keep my desk.
I sort of miss that stool. It was terrifying to sit on, which I think of as a feature. Nobody else in the shop ever wanted to sit on it, so they could never steal it from me.
It rules. It encourages a lot of lateral movement, and I find myself using it about 50% of the time my desk is high.
I generally stand in the am, and then lower my desk to sit in the afternoon (I use a second-hand Aeron).
When I see his photo I think I can watch a movie in that position but working I doubt it, I need to feel more "engaged" with the keyboard, the mouse, the screen, if that makes sense.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-na...
Mind boggling...
I use it every day.
What's that? The accommodation near your workplace is much more expensive and so you wouldn't be able to afford your massive suburban American home?
Then sell all your cheap crap and then move, you fat American.
[1] speaking as a Londoner, living in a modest suburban flat about an hour's journey from where I work, your suggestion is financially impractical, even if I sold all my possessions. Even if it were practical, I'm sure you recognise that not everyone could do this simultaneously.
Let's not forget - HN is not representative of the general population.
It is blazingly obvious to everyone outside of North American that their health woes are down to a reliance on cars, cities built to accommodate cars and an overconsumption of sugar.
It is incredible that they haven't managed to figure this out yet.
As adestefan observes, the problem is not confined to America nowadays either.
I go away and do something else instead.
Living downtown would cost over double my mortgage and significantly reduce my quality of life. I have access to trails and silent nights by living 14-20 minutes from work depending on traffic.
I also eat real foods and avoid most processed food and sugar. When I have a sugar craving, I buy some fruit.
If "walking" is your only form of exercise, you may curb obesity, but you'll still be far from perfect health.
The human body is an incredible contraption, and there is almost always room for improvement and growth. Get stronger, faster, and more durable.