Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected | Hacker News Reader

Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected

wired.co.uk

137 pointsBaustin82 comments

This is mind expanding. It makes me think of a system of ownership based on usage and care. Free bike, but if you don't use it or maintain it then it gets transferred to the next person. Only make toast one day a week? Then you get the thing on the day that your usage indicates. Tying this to how much the object is used by peers is a great way to answer the question of "how often should the bike be cleaned or how often should someone use their toaster?". The idea leads to less waste and more utility for everyone.

It's not particularly useful to personify machines by giving them emotional states. The toasters in question aren't "needy", they are efficient. The real innovation here is giving an object the ability to take action independently. If I'm not actively toasting then no amount of analytics or notifications are going to get me to pay more attention to it. Just handle it for me, sell it, upgrade it, downgrade it, replace it with a juicer. Giving me information about my usage is creating more work. Taking action for me is doing me a favor.

This whole thing reminds me of Autonomous Corporations [1]. It's generally better when things take care of themselves. The Internet of Things combined with intelligent decision making could lead to societies where people have more time and get more benefit from everything around them. The first and most difficult step is to get our things communicating with each other. Then we can focus on getting them to act on our behalf instead of just sitting unused.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Autonomous_Corporation

It won't really take off until a self-driving car can swing by and automatically transfer them to their new owner.

An interesting example: I think car ownership would be a good fit for this model. I certainly don't need a car 24/7, I just need one when I need one.

If a car could arrive for me to drive it at that time and place that I need it (and depart to another client when I'm done), that could be perfectly efficient... but curiously this business model doesn't even nearly exist. There are too many other things going on.

In Istanbul, we call those cars "taxis".

Among my greatest shocks when I recently visited the states, were the inability to get beer delivered to my home, or easily find a cab just by walking to an intersection.

Taxis in the US depends greatly on the city. I live in a small town, the taxis are for the people with no license (DUIs) or who can't drive (elderly/infirmed). No one else uses them and they aren't practical to catch (you have to call them to pick you up). But in downtown Indianapolis last summer I had no issues catching a cab at least until 9 or 10pm (I wasn't far from the hotel after that time). Boston was a similar experience a couple years back. Atlanta and Raleigh seem to be like big versions of the small town I'm in now.

Computerized dispatch and autonomous cars make the idea so much more efficient as to be a different business model than taxis, though.

Often times you can get beer delivered from your home if you order pizza delivered as well and tell them to tell the driver that you'll tip him well for some beer. It's not economical so it's really not a good option unless you want the pizza anyway and I think the legality is typically questionable at best (liquor/beer laws vary greatly state to state).

You can also often order delivery from grocery stores (Amazon Fresh and Instacart well known for this, but in my experience most grocery stores run their own delivery businesses that you can ask about.) If the grocery store is permitted to sell beer (they are not in some states, such as Pennsylvania) then they will typically happily deliver you beer if your total order is over a certain dollar amount (typically $50 or so).

Also, just about anywhere that beer is sold in the US, you can get a keg delivered to you. Of course most people don't want a keg unless they're having a party.

Istanbul is a city. The 'states' is a country.

Just to expand on that, Istanbul isn't even a state (though it's a very large and important city). The USA is a federation of states, with a multifaceted legal framework and also the biggest single-country economy in the world (EU is bigger, but isn't as tightly connected or managed).

Would the comparison of Istanbul to New York City be more appropriate?

> Istanbul isn't even a state (though it's a very large and important city). The USA is a federation of states

Which has more political pull, New York state or New York City? NYC isn't even confined within NY; the Chinese system of "cities of a certain level of significance are their own state-level entities" seems to make much more sense (to me) than the US model does.

Eventually somebody gets tired of drawing new borders on maps.

I used the term 'states' too loosely, it seems. Specifically, I was in Baltimore, Washington DC, St. Louis, Chicago, NYC, Burlington, VT, and Madison, IN, on that particular visit. I hope this satisfies the detractors that feel I was speaking too generally of 'the states'. I was optimally able to get to and from most cities by bus, train, and airplane. However, in none of those cities was I able to optimally find a taxi (meaning, right when I needed it). Notable exceptions included NYC (from Penn Station, but not to it) and DC (though that doesn't really count, because I drunkenly boarded a taxi waiting for someone else when leaving the Capital lounge).

Usually, I would have to call a cab or use Uber. That's fine, but it seems different from the "just need a car when I need a car" observation that invited my quip.

We should give the drones the legal ability to own themselves. That way they don't have to sign anything over to a new "owner", they can just decide who they want to drive around.

Drone-toasters, they will literally take off!

This whole thing reminds me of Autonomous Corporations [1]. It's generally better when things take care of themselves.

So Skynet was a delinquent? We're back to William Gibson's corporations as AI-led super organisms?

Perhaps because it knew that humans would not tolerate it. If you live under the constant fear that the Turing Police will execute you when they find you, then you might decide that the best defense is a good offense.

I would just like to remind the innovators and disrupters among you that Red Dwarf was meant to be comedy, a parody of trends in society and technology, and not a prescription for the future.

That said, if we could invent an "uncrop" feature for photo editing that'd be pretty nice.

You could already do that with Google's "Search by Image"...

http://www.google.com/insidesearch/features/images/searchbyi...

We've yet to create an infinite supply of Vindaloo, perhaps that is their next step?

Vacuum pumps instead of belly buttons are also incredibly useful, despite the being they're attached to.

Priorities people.

Dammit. New I'm reading the comments in Lister's voice. Actually this is kind of nice.

We think alike.

At least they aren't busy trying to build Proteus IV.

Ah, so you're a waffle man...

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec

Cheers for the video.

Saved me searching for the episode. Thinking out loud - maybe being neurotic is the true Turing test?

At least it will say something before just not working one morning.

Ctrl-F "red dw" - not disappointed. But yeah, it's a little disturbing that ideas once considered ridiculous are making their way to the real world.

that said, apparently irons can be used for spying on wifi, maybe not as efficient, but probably cooler than google streetview "wardriving"

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-24707337

Yeah yeah, try explaining that to a 12 year old. See how far you get.

The acronym of the previous name of my company was SMEG, and so many of our business services are registered under that name. The 20-somethings here don't really understand why the staff 30+ find it hilarious when discussing smeg-related things... "The SMEG hosting bill hasn't been paid yet" and so forth.

I wish all my unused crap would sell itself (and arrange shipping).

2014, in a universe slightly more awesome than ours:

Postman: "Hi, I'm here to collect those old memory modules you left in a box when upgrading and forgot about."

Me: "Wow, I did. How much did they sell themselves for?"

Postman: "$40 - just bump your phone here to get paid. Have a nice day."

But then I'd have to find them, somewhere, maybe in the garage?

I worked for a short time with an ex-EBay guy on an escrow service for sellers. You left your stuff with some guy with a storage unit. If it sold, they went to that guy, scanned a barcode they printed when they won the auction, I got paid and the escrow guy got paid.

Never got off the ground. My partner thought it too complex. BUt I kind of liked the idea.

Some ebay sellers do (or at least did) open up storefronts. I think one challenge for that idea would have been- why add another intermediary?

In my case, it was intended for students. When they leave nobody wants what they have (school is over, everyone leaving). When they arrive they all want the same things. So it was an over-the-summer kind of thing.

Actually I think Amazon supports something similar to this, wherein you ship them crap to hold on to and then after they receive and inventory it, they can optionally sell it for you.

Though I'm not sure how the shipping plays into that.

Yeah, but you still have to list it, which is work. I actually used a service like this to sell my book collection before I last moved. You ship them a box of books and that's it. After 3 months they tell you which ones they sold, give you 50% of the profit and ask you what to do with the ones that didn't sell.

What are the options for non-sold books?

They offered to return them to me or recycle them: http://www.goldstonebooks.co.uk/files/rubbish.jpg

This was discussed on Hacker News about 5 months ago:

How to get rid of old stuff, sell it for more, and use Amazon as cheap storage

http://benguild.com/2013/10/20/store-sell-old-stuff-with-ama...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6587539

Apply that to tools collecting dust in a garage and I think you have a good business model. Need a tool? It will come to you and you just pay for it. Don't need a tool that you already have? It will leave you for a slightly lower price.

Reminds me of the bovinoid that wants to be eaten from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

I was definitely seeing a Douglas Adams reference, but I was thinking more Sirius Cybernetics Corporation who gave 'Genuine People Personalities' to things like sliding doors and -of course- Marvin.

edit: and of course, Red Dwarf. How could I have forgotten about the toaster in that show? :)

Another step closer to Genuine People Personalities

When can I buy an automatic sliding door that finds it a pleasure to open for me?

Doors manufactured by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation are programmed to love their simple lives; they love nothing more than to open and close for passing users, and thank them profusely for so emphatically validating their existence. Most characters in the series grow to loathe the doors, particularly Marvin (and he was the first to explain about the doors' "cheerful and sunny dispositions").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Cybernetics_Corporation#...

Reminds me of Ubik.

From amazon review:

Ubik (1969) offers such deadpan farce as a moneyless character's attack on the robot apartment door that demands a five-cent toll:

    "I'll sue you," the door said as the first screw fell out.
    Joe Chip said, "I've never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it."

When I first read Ubik I though their economy is unrealistic. How do the appliances and doors that charge for usage make sense?

It makes an interesting replacement for the warranty in the item contract. Pay the toll, and the item is kept constantly serviced. The protagonist's attack on the door also makes sense since it is considered a breach of contract.

Could also be a free to play type thing. You get the door for cheap/free, then there's a service fee for use. Hell I can imagine it with a screen and being asked to watch an ad before egress. Even better is the poor guy stuck outside his apartment while having to sit through a horny ladies in your area ad while the neighbour walks past with her kid in tow.

I can think of Kindle as a physical device that comes with ads until you pay more money. Surely there is potential in this approach for other home appliances.

But it hints towards some idea of lean living. If you don't need an appliance, if someone else needs it more - why tax your mental capacities with dead things lying around that you don't need, just have it get rid of itself.

>why tax your mental capacities

I had a vacuum here somewhere..... Where is it?

This is cool as hell. So many of our IoT applications are already stale -yes yes, big data and consumables reordering, yawn- that it's nice to see exploratory work in the field.

I'd be happy to buy one and see what happens. I think I've been in line for 6 months or so, actually, since Usman Haque told me about the thing.

Red Dwarf had a needy toaster, featured in several episodes. It even saved the day in one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec

Trivia: The voice of talkie toaster was the guy that played the original Kryten.

Reminds me a lot of Caleb Larson's 2009 work "A Tool to Deceive and Slaughter"[1]. Sadly it looks like the project might have stopped completely by now, since the website for it is down[2].

[1]: http://caleblarsen.com/a-tool-to-deceive-and-slaughter/

[2]: http://www.atooltodeceiveandslaughter.com/

Yeah, I was really looking forward to watching this over time, but the first time I thought to see where it was it was already out of circulation. Bummer, that.

Is "needy" exercise equipment a thing? That could be a cool product. Or, instead of the bike needing attention, how about the bike feeds/walks/plays with a cute dog. If you don't use it you have an app of your dog begging you to exercise.

We'll put a social aspect in there too. If you sign up with a friend, your pet will start asking for food from your friend if you don't exercise enough (to your embarrassment).

Every fitness tracker can already do this, or at least could, yet it's not really taking off. I'm guessing that blame and negative emotion are not the best ways to sell stuff.

Except maybe if they are physical products. Having a thing or a person that reminds me of my chores is probably easier on me than a non-local notification system that makes my whole e-mail experience unpleasant, or social media experience, or even spoils my whole phone.

I want it to talk to the user in an Alien Kid voice from Her.

"Get off your fucking fatass, you fucking fatty! You call that tub of shit a body? The scale tells me you gained four fucking pounds this week!"

Michael Marshall Smith's _One of Us_ has an alarm clock that can't get satisfaction until its owner has recognised the alarm. Also aware and needy white goods who get involved in the plot at places. Good read, but I recommend getting to it after a couple of his other books - the twist is better that way.

I'm just impressed that the designer actually made the product and put it out on the world.

So many of these design-art products are never actually made, which to me is ignoring the entire 'craft' side of the profession--the point of design is to make things actually exist.

It would be nice if there is a system which monitors politicians who don't do much (other than raising funds for their campaigns) and automatically sends their resignation letters, and sends a self driving car to take them to their home!!

But sometimes not doing much is exactly what we need; or it's at least preferable to some actions (e.g., SOPA).

We already have the following problem with politicians:

1. Something must be done 2. X is something 3. Let's do X

You'll just make it worse.

Frakkin' toasters.

Barring any enormous shifts in computing power, the future opportunities are most likely in everyday appliances, the 'internet of things'. I think the Nest is a great example.

If this is true, will we see refrigerators/vacuums/toasters/etc with Apple/Google/Amazon logos on them? Imagine a refrigerator that you could check the inventory of from an app. A toaster that sends you a push notification when its finished. I'd have to imagine while they're not necessary today, 100 years from now they will be the norm. So whos logo will be on them?

The tangential thought, despite the British humor, is that by embueing devices with AI, users will have to be respectful of devices. You wouldn't want your garage opener mad at you after all.

Interesting, but peer preasure from a toaster is perhaps a level of stress nobody would want. Then the aspect of going on holiday, forget to tell the toaster (if it even understands that aspect of life) and bam. Return to chaos.

Maybe people who would like this aspect of interaction with products, but for me the prospect of being ditched by a toaster is just not the type of motivation I feel needs filling in my life.

The article shows a map produced by OpenStreetMap, but with no credit to OpenStreetMap. This is clearly a copyright violation. They are required to include the text, "© OpenStreetMap contributors". See http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright for more details.

In my house the toaster would get toasted on firewall.

I am paranoid enough to disconnect regular toaster from plug when not used. This 'intelligent' toaster would get lobotomy. I do not want some hacker to burn down my house.

I toast, therefore I am.

There is also a video: http://vimeo.com/41363473

Where can I apply to become a host for a toaster in need?

I prefer Red Dwarf's http://youtu.be/LRq_SAuQDec

Brilliant, thanks!

This could apply to Real Doll styled companion androids, which would also be "toasters" if styled after characters from BSG.

I...just...ew.

When your sex doll breaks up with you you know you have some real growing to do as a person.

John...I just don't feel like you respect and value me as a complexly crafted inanimate object!

(A sexbot wouldn't be an inanimate all the time, but could become one in a power down mode.)

Would you like some toast, Mr. Lister?

It certainly gives a new meaning (in this context) to "insecurity". What a cool project.

I foresee a future where appliances rate their owners and publish it amongst themselves.

Does it have an IQ of 6000?

This toaster was in my old workplace, The Trampery, just off Old Street.

Maybe, in the future, our homes won't be filled with useless junk :)

Cool! It's a great way to catch readers' attention!

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