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Comment by gmays | Hacker News Reader

It's more of a reflection of the society than anything to do specifically with that particular system (education in this case), just like counterfeiting/copying in China and corruption/scams in third world countries.

That kind of stuff really pisses me off, but I also have a naive perspective. For example, in some parts of the world (particularly in low trust societies) corruption is looked at differently, it's just 'taking care' of the family to the best of your ability. The more power you have, the more 'ability' you have. Maybe the goal should be to increase trust instead of trying to 'fix' the symptom?

It's hard to accept that from an American perspective. In fact, maybe it's even wrong to call it 'corruption' as if our societal views represent some sort of moral standard. But maybe they do. Shrug

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People cheat because Gain(cheating) * P(not getting caught) > Cost(cheating) * (1 - P(not getting caught)). I would say this is true for everyone everywhere regardless of society, culture or race. India is trying to reduce P(not getting caught) because, from a policy perspective, the other terms in that equation are close to impossible to change.

The US doesn't have this problem because the gains due to obvious cheating aren't big enough. People do "cheat" in the sense of "acting unfairly to gain an advantage." For example using ADD prescriptions to get extra time on exams is a well-known trick, another is to have college application counsellors ghostwrite essays and then there are numerous other methods which may not technically count as cheating but achieve the desired effect. The difference is that people whose kids do this are also those who control the media narrative, so you've all been brainwashed into thinking that this is somehow more acceptable.

Disagree on the ADD prescription point. ADD meds can boost performance but you still have to at least learn the material. Pills can't put knowledge in your head. But then again, I'm the one that wants to legalize steroids in the Olympics.

The parent isn't referring to juicing with medication, rather seeking a diagnosis in order to receive accommodations like extra exam time [0].

The most notable example of this is probably the 2000 California audit:

" An analysis of the numbers from the report yielded the following figures: white students were over-represented by 45%, students coming from families whose incomes exceed $100,000 were over-represented by 139%, and students from private schools were over-represented by 100%. The report also concluded that 18.2% of the requests granted were of “questionable” merit and gave students an “unwarranted” and “unfair” advantage. The report cited weaknesses in the College Board’s approval process as the cause of some of the unfair distribution." [1]

In the meantime it actually became more desirable...

"A 2000 audit of California test takers showed a disproportionate number of white, affluent students receiving accommodations, igniting suspicions of exaggerated or nonexistent disabilities. Three years later, in the wake of a lawsuit, ACT and the College Board stopped flagging scores of accommodated students for admissions offices; with the stigma gone, the incentive grew to game the system." [2]

0: https://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ssd/accommoda...

1: https://www.applerouth.com/blog/2006/04/27/extended-time-and...

2: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/education/edlife/07strateg...

If you're diagnosed with ADD you can get time and a half which makes an enormous difference on standardized exams with tight time limits like the SAT.

Which is of course an insane system. SAT should give everyone that time and a half.

>Gain(cheating) * P(not getting caught) > Cost(cheating) * (1 - P(not getting caught))

Western society has a much higher chance of getting caught and a much higher cost when caught because it views that behaviour as abnormal. India has a cultural problem where cheating is expected.

India has a cultural problem where cheating is expected.

You are condemning an entire country and its "culture" with a single sentence. What evidence can you provide?

Even a minority of people engaging in a particular behavior can have a very significant impact on a culture as a whole. It's perfectly valid to say that the culture thus suffers from some sort of a problem, even if not everybody associated with that culture is responsible for the problem.

Going based on the information in the article, and assuming it's correct, there does seem to be at least some sort of a problem with cheating far beyond what we see in other cultures, and it does appear to be widespread. The preventative actions described would be very unexpected in many other cultures, and totally unthinkable in others.

This is one of those impacts of immigration that would be interesting to discuss. Given a society is defined by it's people. The introduction of a sub set that has a lower corruption tolerance, this must lower the overall tolerance.

"Who cares if the left/right gave money to their friends. At least it went towards roads. In my country they just pocket the money."

Another way of looking at it is that those who are willing to uproot their lives and move to another country are much less tolerant of such practices in their home countries than the average person there.

Don't be so hasty to judge an entire country. Remember, what is corruption in a third world country is lobbying here. What is cheating in a third world country is "inner city youth problems." (Guns in schools anyone?)

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