Russian Propaganda War In Full Swing Over Ukraine | Hacker News Reader

Russian Propaganda War In Full Swing Over Ukraine

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49 pointsytNumbers34 comments

The title should be "US Propaganda War [1] In Full Swing Over Ukraine"

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBeYg8KdtY

Reason why the US has funded fascist 'protestors' in Ukraine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFpKwEm43n0

This is no different than the 'uprisings' in Libya [2], Syria[3], and the current ones in Venezuela [4]. These 'revolutions' are all part of a larger energy struggle ( of which the oppressed peoples of each respective country will not see a single cent )

[2] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27760.htm [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controvers... [4] https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Olano/status/441742382719959040/ph... [4] http://www.popularresistance.org/is-us-supporting-oligarch-c...

Protesters are not "fascist", that's a blatant exaggeration by Russian propaganda. See "Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin" signed by two chief Rabbis of Ukraine and by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [1], and statement by All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress [2].

> They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish progroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.

There are much more similar articles about it by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [3], by The Congress of national minorities of Ukraine, by Crimean Tatar Mejlis. None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin.

[1] http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html

[2] http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-...

[3] http://vaadua.org/rubrika/vaads-news-english

> None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin.

how about being careful with absolute statements. Pretty sure the largest Ukrainian minority, the ethnic Russians are pretty worried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine

Also nice that you mention the Pravy Sektor. Check out their vKontakte page: http://vk.com/album-62043361_00. Nothing to be worried about I guess.

Russians were widely represented on Maidan. According to the poll from February, 16% of Maidan spoke Russian at home. [1] There are so much fuss about "fascist" Ukrainians, but surprisingly zero information any discrimination against Russians. So, nope. What about Pravyj Sektor -- you really can't find something more important to worry except their flag? For example, worry about ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea? Ukrainian channels were closed there, Ukrainian language will not be protected anymore in Russia, Ukrainian people are abused, beaten, kidnapped by Russians. That very real discrimination doesn't worry you comparing to hypothetical discrimination of Russians in Ukraine?

[1] http://www.dif.org.ua/ua/polls/2014_polls/vid-maidanu-taboru...

Was just about to post this. These are your "peaceful" pro western "unity" activists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

Being German it is especially disgusting how the German government is supporting the far right nationalists who have close ties to the German NPD (the facist party of Germany).

A few highlights from their stances:

* Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”[51]

* Criminalization of public promotion of abortions or calls for abortions (by introducing a fine for doing so)[96]

* The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates[40][51]

* Proportional representation on executive bodies of ethnic Ukrainians, on the one hand, and national minorities, on the other[40][51][98]

* Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry[2]

Also

> On 23 February 2014, following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels.[102]

and

> In 2004, party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia."[32][40] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a "‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" in 2005, later changing "Joseph Goebbels" to "Ernst Jünger."[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[40][87][107] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of Light in history".[108]

anyway I guess I must be part of the Russian Propaganda machine for quoting from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

Also I wanted to add I'm not pro Russia either. If you wrongfully assumed that you should check your own ideology because you don't have to take up one of two sides.

Personally I consider this a loose loose for Ukraine which is a shame.

I believe western politicians don't really care about facism at this point as long it is pro-western instead of pro-russian facism. And from a geopolitical point of view that might be the right thing to do in the current situation.

That there is foreign interference and influence in those protests is a given (and from everywhere, not only the US), but I really dislike when people reduce those protests to only that. That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK, it's true that it was that in part, and it's true that without France's support the US wouldn't have won, but it was much more than only a conflict between the two European countries.

And it's the same with all those revolts that you clump up together as if it's only the US/West wish and doing.

I realize the US example is not perfectly the same, but you get the gist of what I'm saying. And I also realize you didn't explicitly say it was "only" US/west actions, but the way you phrased your post didn't leave much ambiguity on what you meant.

> That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK

It's not at all the same. Your example is from the ages of monarchies fighting each other through open warfare for control of land, trade routes, and slaves.

Now we live in the ages of obscure plutocrats playing a tug of war to control lucrative energy markets using discrete paramilitary tactics (CIA activities) and tight media control (MSM fear-mongering, sock puppets, 'grass-root' campains...) to rally the masses behind them.

>Examining examples of preventative war waged by the United States, he notes that all of the nations that have been attacked have shared the same three characteristics: 1) they are "virtually defenseless", 2) they are "important enough to be worth the trouble" and 3) there has been a way to portray them as "the ultimate evil and an imminent threat to our survival."[27] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival#U.S._Imper...

Russia, along with China, are the only two countries with the potential to oppose the United States. It looks like Ukraine is been used by the to continue the attempted destabilisation of Russia.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the current president of Ukraine, has a foundation with some very interesting partners: http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners

Arseniy Yatsenyuk is not the acting president of Ukraine.

infowars at it again...

I can't entirely disagree that all of this stems from energy interests, and that americans are awfully good at political PR, but that doesn't justify what Putin is doing either.

What do you think Putin is actually doing? Are you aware that the Russian troops are there during the last 200 years and now regulated by the agreements signed in 1997 (the link is form the German international news agency):

http://www.dw.de/bound-by-treaty-russia-ukraine-and-crimea/a...

"Under the agreements, Russia was permitted to station a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea."

Are you also aware that the Russians are a big part of population in Ukraine and their language appears being dropped as an official language since a few days? Don't you think that Russians in Ukraine would like to keep using their own language? Don't you think they are supposed to have human rights and that they would actually like to minimize influence of the new government on them?

My parents have and still watch Russian satellite channels, what is shown on Russian news channels when compared to every single other news channel outside of Russia is very different.

Either there is a conspiracy between all the news channels of the world to portray Russia as a bully which is silly and doesnt pass Occams Razor test or the Russian tv has gone into full propaganda swing.

I hope the irony of calling the west and Ukraine "fascist" is not lost on Russians when Putin and co are using every trick and behaving in a manner that would have made the 3rd Reich propaganda ministry proud.

> Either there is a conspiracy between all the news channels of the world to portray Russia as a bully which is silly and doesnt pass Occams Razor test or the Russian tv has gone into full propaganda swing.

Probably both.

The way news is distributed today, most news outlets are recycling the same stories they got from either Retuers or Associated Press. It's very likely that international stories follow a common theme. Good read on how news is distributed is http://www.flatearthnews.net

Meanwhile the Russians know they need to push their own version of events

First victim of war and all that

Russia tries to push their propaganda on their channels. All other news channels are trying to push their point of view on current situation. It feels like no one actually cares about truth any more. And this is very very sad.

And how exactly do you determine "the truth"? The western view is probably viewed as propaganda in Russia. There is no such thing as an objective point of view.

Lets look at the facts,

Russian speaking troops without any country marking (shoot at one and the world would quickly find out who they belong to) but are speaking Russian and driving trucks with Russian numbers plates are occupying Crimea and blockaded Ukranian military bases.

And are now pushing for an Anschluss style referendum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stimmzettel-Anschluss.jpg

I highly doubt the Ukranians would have blockaded their own bases "for the laugh" or want a part of their country annexed by Russia.

Whichever way the state controlled Russian media tries to spin in, "the boots on the ground" paint a different picture as to what the Russians are being told.

Are you trying to argue with me? Because I haven't made any argument for or against Russia or the West in my post. I just pointed out that facts can be interpreted in different ways. That shouldn't prevent anyone from taking a stand, but it's important to know how "the truth" works.

of course, the new revolutionary government repealing protection laws for Russians in their borders has nothing to do with the fact Crimea was part of Russia (before Gorbachev gave it to Ukraine to gain favour) and Crimea being almost entirely occupied with the remaining Russian families has absolutely nothing to do with the protection of Russians.

it _must_ be to do with Russia being a bully- sarcasm

$Sudetenland = preg_replace('/Russian/','/German/',$argument);

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

Wait so are you saying the Anschluss was involuntary and Austrians didn't openly welcome Hitler?

The similarities, the rhetoric and the actions from Putin are frighteningly similar as to what happened at the start of WW2 :(

I see, so I take it you left home through your third story window rather than the front door, and then flew to work on a pigeon since nothing can be known as objective truth.

It feels very different, however. It feels that while the "other" news channels are indeed pushing their point of view, most of the Russian news media is pushing something else, which is neither their point of view ("truth" as they would see it) nor particularly based on facts on the ground. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, and in any case, I am talking about perceptions.

Russian troops help organising referendums now at least that is common in all reports.

Ukrainian Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy [1]. The guy who founded neo-nazi party in 1991 [2], together with Oleh Tyahnybok now the leader of Svoboda party [3]

Oleh Tyahnybok is on the Simon Wiesenthal neo-nazi watchlist.[4, see page 2]. And now Andriy Parubiy as national security chief is forming 60k strong national guard. And nobody is worried about it?

These guys don't need Russian media to portray them as neo-nazis. They do pretty good job themselves.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-National_Party_of_Ukrain... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) [4] http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-...

so, this is happening right now in Moscow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbTWVBzQEH8 [livestream]

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/444805301527932928

"#BREAKING: 50,000 rally in Moscow against Russia's intervention in Crimea: AFP estimate"

Steve Rosenberg, Moscow Correspondent for BBC News just said on Twitter: "Ukraine's Interior Minister says Russian news agencies reporting some events in Ukraine even before they happen."

Aside from every other fact it's worth remembering that Russia is quite likely the best in propaganda, I mean they had 50+ years experience spreading it to like half of the world's landmass.

>During the Cold War, a group of Russian journalists toured the United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by their hosts for their impressions. 'I have to tell you,' said their spokesman, 'that we were astonished to find after reading all the newspapers and watching TV, that all the opinions on all the vital issues were by and large, the same. To get that result in our country, we imprison people, we tear out their fingernails. Here, you don't have that. What's the secret? How do you do it?'[71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pilger#Criticism_of_the_ma...

But then americans never had their propaganda officials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar

There is just a propaganda war being waged period... it's just easier to see the absurdity of some of the Russian propaganda.

Reading the comments here apparently even HN is not a haven free from propaganda wars.

Damn!!! Why is this post here??? Who votes for this?

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