The sheer volume of conversations I've had with people in the Bakery scenario is mind boggling. I think most people just get jaded around their mid thirties in any career. It's just some people have the balls to setup bakeries!
The sheer volume of conversations I've had with people in the Bakery scenario is mind boggling. I think most people just get jaded around their mid thirties in any career. It's just some people have the balls to setup bakeries!
Sometimes it pays to be foolhardy (lord knows I have been several times), but painting the picture that all of us who may be dissatisfied with our current mid-level careers as technologists would be successful if we just had the courage to abandon a decade and a half of training and effort to chase something new, that's disingenuous.
You don't need to make a tonne of money to be happy. Move somewhere cheap, keep your expenses low, and have fun running a bakery. You get to interact with more people, get involved in your community, and people can taste the results of your work.
It's incredibly easy to say "move somewhere cheap, keep your expenses low, and have fun" from the outside. I have been perfectly willing to move for a job. I've changed continents, and failing that moved literally across country (vertically mind you) for another. We even moved when we had a house with a mortgage and rented out the house (at a loss) because the housing market sucked in 2008. Moving that much took a huge toll on my family. We basically decided to stop when my second kid entered school, and my wife opened her retail business. Which is to say, it ain't that simple.
Have you started a retail business? I've watched first hand what it takes. My wife works easily 50% harder than I do, for 50% of what I make on a good day. She has finally gotten to the point where she has three part time employees so she can take one day a week off. She cannot simply 1099 contractors, so she has to worry about witholding, workman's compensation, and employee benefits. She has to deal with upstream suppliers, constantly finding new customers, driving business into her shop as well as subsidizing it with external events. She'd be the first to tell you that without my salary backing up the family ... she would have had to shut her doors several times.
In our industry we lose site of the actual cost to run a mom-and-pop business because we can throw up a website for $20/mo and a long-weekend of work. (Isn't that what the basic premise of the Lean Startup is? Throw something economically cheap together to test the idea and bootstrap sales?) My wife's business has kept expenses low. She buys all her equipment second hand off craigslist (she's a potter not a baker so thankfully a lot of failed hobbyists make the supply on craigslist reasonable). I'd estimate her expenses before payroll are close to $2k-$3k/month for consumables and rent. Most months she breaks even after payroll, and doesn't pay herself an actual salary.
If this description sounds remotely appealing, then by all means stop what you're doing and go that. Programming really is that hateful.
However painting it with the rose-tinted glasses of "You get to interact with more people, get involved in your community, and people can taste the results of your work." belies the actual hard work that building a business is. It elides the fact that there will be nights you will lie awake wondering if you'll make enough sales to pay last month's rent ... let alone this month's rent.
For some people that is still better than what they were doing before, but pretending that all you need is a little more gumption ... I don't know a better word for it than 'disingenuous'.
Heck, starting a software business and decided to grow to your first hires and worrying about making payroll is just as taxing.
What I meant was that for a disenfranchised programmer perhaps they do need to get out of programming for a while. And if you're thinking of taking a pay-cut to trade for some happiness then one suggestion is moving somewhere cheap. I'm not a guru... it's just the best thing I could think of. I could afford a 650k house in the city or I could afford a 200k one on a commuter line in a less-desirable city. Seems to me that if I needed to take a pay-cut then I'd be better prepared if my costs of living were lower than if I had locked myself into the expensive city house.
But maybe not?
"Just pack up and move somewhere cheaper" is easy advice to give, but it doesn't apply to every situation. Not everyone has that luxury. By the time you reach the mid-point of your career, you may have one or more of a partner, a partner with a professional career, personal obligations in your area, a mortgage, a mortgage you can't get out of without losing a lot of money/credit rating, aging parents, children, ailing family members who live with you, medical conditions which limit where you can live, ex partner with children not willing to move, et cetera. Alternately you may already live very frugally.
When I was fresh out of college, I couldn't have imagined any of those circumstances applying to me or anyone I know. Now I've seen them happen to many of my peers and colleagues.
Second, given the right set of circumstances you could find something wrong with any given suggestion. I wasn't trying to be flippant. Life is complex and I am struggling to find answers to many of the same questions as you.
Best of luck.
Update: also should apologize if my suggestion was in poor taste. I realize it's not the kind if advice that works for everyone.
Actually in my experience it's not. Again about 5 years ago I started my own software company. About a year after that I brought in a friend as a partner. We did consulting for the next few years, and my partner ran into an idea for a product that we couldn't pass up. (We're releasing to our first round of beta-customers this week.) During that time we've had several employees (part-time and full-time), great contracts, not-so-great contracts, and one contract that made me curl up in my bed for a week and refuse to speak to anyone for two days.
My job has still been significantly easier than my wife's over that same period. I've had to deal with maybe a dozen clients, she's had hundreds in the 3 years she's had a retail location. Our operating budget monthly outside of payroll is measured in the hundreds (handful of linodes, github account) her's is an order of magnitude higher. She has to travel extensively around our metro area (we happen to live somewhere with crap public transit so lots of driving), spending some weeks as much as 30hrs in her car alone. I work from home, or when I'm feeling audacious from the park near my kid's school.
Just today she called and told me though that she'd visited a place where part-time employees had to be badged in, and she was incredibly happy to be self-employed seeing that. I've spent the last few days feeling the grass was greener with a salaried job. Knowing your next paycheck is gonna arrive is a really nice luxury. Being able to take two weeks off without having to worry about how you'll make payroll is a really nice luxury.
Listing here for you all the reasons why being self-employed sucks has ironically reminded me that I really am doing this because I want to. So yeah what you're saying overall about finding what need to do and doing that is entirely true for me, but it isn't necessarily "easy". I certainly didn't realize how hard it would be before I started.
True, but the amount of money required for this is not much. If you aren't picky where, and you have neough saved up to buy a house, you might be able to get by relatively well on $3000 a year in some parts of the world.
> Have you started a retail business?
I have helped.
Part of what you are talking about though is the cost in a more complex society of doing this. Now a bakery is not necessarily a retail business primarily. The most successful bakeries I know do both retail and wholesale baking. I think it would be impossible to get by really on only one side. People who want to buy your bread will come by, but you do not want to make everyone come to your store just to buy a loaf of bread. You have to get it in other stores.
So I don't think it is fair to call it just a retail business.
> However painting it with the rose-tinted glasses of "You get to interact with more people, get involved in your community, and people can taste the results of your work." belies the actual hard work that building a business is.
I think what you are missing though is that both programming and baking are ultimately about creatively making something. I don't mean just artistically. I mean it is about craft and seeing things come to life in your hands. Part of the question is who you answer to and how deep your hands are in it physically.
So no I don't see it as stupid to open up a bakery. As with any business you need to do your planning first, prepare for an extended period without profit, etc going in (and have capital investment of your own to make it work).
Fair enough, I was actually assuming it was basically similar to my wife's pottery business. She has a retail location (studio space) but a good portion of her revenue comes from what would be the equivalent of wholesale sales. She does field trips and after school programs. The two compliment each other, and while you can survive with just a retail location (most of her industry does) ... the fact that all but two of the local pottery shops have shut down in the last three years suggests how difficult that is.
> As with any business you need to do your planning first, prepare for an extended period without profit, etc going in (and have capital investment of your own to make it work).
I'm pretty sure that is the gist of what I was trying to say. The original comment, and the general theme of comments like this, suggests that all you need is enough "balls" to just do it. I'd suggest that most people who actually start businesses to change careers do it because they don't know what they're in for. Anecdotally that seems to be the case from everything I've heard since I first started thinking about running a business. In that context I stand by my assertion that opening a business _simply because_ you're tired of your old career is foolhardy.
This is making an inverse error. If your current job isn't making you happy, there isn't actually anything that guarantees leaving it will make you happy.
What do you tell the interviewer who says: "uh, yeah but your experience is all 1-5 years old. Why haven't you committed to github this week?"
We're just arm-chair quarterbacking chromatic's life with our own experiences informing what play is "obviously" the right idea. I know from personal experience that he's a incredibly insightful intelligent person. I suspect that he has weighed all of these options and hopefully he'll find the best solution for his own life.