Does this apply to CS majors? (I'm about to start college this fall)
Edit:
- I'll be studying in the US.
- I'm already a (somewhat) experienced developer.
- I'm interested in CS theory (but not that great at math, atm.)
Edit:
- I'll be studying in the US.
- I'm already a (somewhat) experienced developer.
- I'm interested in CS theory (but not that great at math, atm.)
I will say that if you are passionate, work on something of your own free will that you can show to employers at the end of the process, and get the sort of practice in that you can get in college, all the sorts of things that are suggested by you already being on HN before college even starts :), that you will have no trouble finding a great job at the end. Even people who just put the time in and finish their courses with no additional effort will almost certainly find jobs in their field... though they will find the great jobs may not be open to them.
(In fact, don't wait. I'm not saying your entire summer has to be spent indoors hacking away, but start working on something over the summer. Oh, I envy you grads today with the easy Internet access and all the glorious, glorious documentation and dozens upon dozens of working dev environments... I managed to put up a static web site of about 10 pages in the summer before college started, and that was stretching what I could do with the resources I had in 1996 in the boonies. (And at the time that was enough to get me a pretty decent student job.) I would loosely suggest learning a language that you won't cover in school, but that's up to you.)
I don't know where you're going to college, but work on falling in with the right people. See if there's a local entrepreneur group or something. I say this even if you aren't going to be one. Hanging around on HN for this long has taught me I am not going to be an entrepreneur and have little interest in being one any time soon. But the local startup community is still a very fun and productive place to hang around even so! Far better than most of the "official clubs" that you may find on campus.
If there is no such community, consider swapping out to a college/university that does have one in your junior year. If you do go that route be sure to have long talks with both relevant advisors about what credits will transfer.
However, if you:
- are interested in CS
- know you want a career in CS
- can afford the degree
I would recommend it. The formal aspect makes sure that you have your bases covered and can also serve as an outward signal.
Also, remember that it's entirely possible to have a great career without a degree.
2. Depends on the school.
3. Depends on your talent.
4. Depends on how much extra you put in between now and applying for jobs or whatever you do in the industry.
5. Depends where you live.
6. Depends on economic conditions 3 - 5 years from now.
At that, if you live in the US, remember to take all the CLEP tests you can this summer to skip as many "mandatory" general ed classes as possible. Assuming you are actually incurring debt or spending money to attend.
But just as a general rule, just having a piece of paper saying bachelors of science in CS doesn't mean jack for most people. You need a portfolio. You need that much more than the degree, in the end.
Seriously. It sounds like you're at least considering a field that pays well and it's not like computers/computerized tech will ever see a downswing any time in the foreseeable future. Going to college can sometimes be seen as a waste for a liberal arts education (most of the time only here and on Reddit), but I don't necessarily think that's true either.
I have an art degree, with a minor in advertising, and am a professional software engineer right now. I changed my majors three times in college (from business to psychology/advertising to art/advertising), and stuck with it at the end to just finish up. Would I go back and choose a different major with more readily available job prospects after graduation? Not a fucking chance. College is a chance to continue mingling with smart people your age, who you've never met, and some happen to be extremely beautiful girls, and life's too short to be an efficient programming worker-bee when you're 18. GET EXPERIENCES. These lead to creativity, which in my opinion is the most important factor of all. If you're resourceful, open-minded, proactive when necessary and going with the flow when not, then I really think the world is yours. It may take a while to get to where you want to be, but it's still yours.
I've seen a bright kid from Italy act very despondent. He was convinced there was no way to have a decent career in his country. I gave him a pep talk but it did make me wonder:
- are we in a temporary bubble of high salaries?
- how long-lived is the technical career? I see people get progressively despondent in their 40s and 50s. Unlike other fields, I don't think we treat our elders with respect.
- tech is notoriously inward looking (a toll on the mind). we also have ridiculously sedentary jobs (a toll on the body)
I am so addicted/madly in love with computers that I can't see myself doing anything else. But I am practical about stuff like housing costs and retirement. I see a very real possibility that the economics of tech will turn around and salaries will take a hit. Already, I've hit a salary wall (around 130K), which doesn't take you that far in expensive parts of the world. My MBA friends seem to be doing a bit better now - what is worrying me is that they get better/get paid better with age. Lets see how long I last ...
Btw, under 35 here.
There's no guarantee. I worry about the same thing.
> I don't think we treat our elders with respect
This is why software is an extremely immature discipline.
* We don't want to use discipline because it hurts our 'flow' (JS semicolon debacle)
* We don't learn from the past ("coupling's not real!")
* We don't respect our elders...unless, of course, you're famous (e.g. Carmack)
I love building things, but the sentiment (at least on HN) is disgustingly populist at times. It's like the whole industry tries to make itself mediocre.
I know many many people who after getting their CS degrees had to move away. In fact I know way more people who moved than stayed or went back to their hometown.