Comment by galois17 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by galois17 | Hacker News Reader

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"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally"

err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period.

Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American political system. In fact, I would say that it is closer to the truth to claim that the American political system is regarded as corrupted, like most of other political systems globally.

I really don't want to hijack the thread but I am kind of tired of this perception that some Americans have of themselves and their country that is ("regarded as") the best democracy in the world.

The american democracy is a representative democracy powered mainly by two private funded right-wing Christian parties.

Not to mention that this political system cannot provide to it's citizens and tax payers the right to public education and public health care.

Anyways, yes in my opinion, it would not be a surprise at all if CIA spied on Congress or if the President (or better the USA CEO) could not do anything about it.

> "[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally"

As far as I can tell, Switzerland has the best political system (with the most direct democracy) and it's really a shame that nobody seems to want to imitate it (which of course can be explained by the fact that it means more power goes to the People, not corporations/secret gvt agencies/etc, which are often allowed to buy politicians via "donations", accepted corruption called "lobbying", etc)

It's a good point, and I wonder what is the ultimate underlying reason because I've heard many share that same opinion. Despite all the things the US political system gets "wrong" and other systems "get right" — somehow the US still calls the shots.

Switzerland has strong redistributive system. From a layman's perspective, it would seem this can be supported by the very high profits in the financial and high-end finished goods markets.

In an economy without such high GDP and average household income, I wonder if it would still be such an effective or model system.

Except it consistently makes decisions that are bad for most of its populace, like (not) joining the EU and restricting EU immigration.

Actually, while I had exactly the same reaction as you initially I realized, once I had calmed down a bit, that assertion being made is about perception not reality.

It wouldn't surprise me that if you did a global poll that the democracy in the US would be subjectively be regarded as "best" - for a lot of reasons:

- The size of the US (probably the single biggest factor)

- The fact that a lot of people from the US genuinely believe that their system of government is the best (a view they are perfectly entitled to) and are rather evangelical about this belief

- The strength of US consumer brands that, at least historically, were associated with "freedom". A lot of the US worldview often seems to have remained frozen in a rather Cold War perspective (e.g. referring to the US President as "leader of the free world" - which always makes me grind my teeth when I see it).

The US have been and are still recognized for their economical strength.

The US have been and are still recognized for their military strength.

The US were once recognized for their democracy but this was some time ago. Today the politics - domestic and foreign - of the US is perceived as corrupt and controlled by the economy. Maybe even as stuck in the cold war.

I think this is a fairly typical perception of the US in western Europe, I am quite sure it is here in Germany. Whether this perception is true or false is a different matter. And if you are not living in a well developed country, if you are living in a non-democratic country, you may of course still perceive the US democracy as desirable.

Germany is often looking at Scandinavia because we think they are doing a couple of things in a better way than we do. You would probably have a hard time or have to look quite some time back to find examples were someone suggested we should do it the American way. Even if you forget about politics and look at the economy. Yes, the economy is recognized as really strong, but it is not perceived as superior.

I probably should have added that I don't think US democracy is held in high regard here in Europe - I am in the UK and I suspect most people here feel that the Scandinavian countries, Germany and Switzerland probably have better functioning democracies than we do. When people talk about our political system in the UK becoming more like the US model it isn't regarded as a good thing!

You (and many others) are having a knee-jerk reaction to what I said. I'm not saying that the US has the best example of democracy (and based on the rest of my post, you would think that would have come across).

What I am saying is that there is a widespread public perception that "America knows best" — the news supports this, Hollywood supports this, and yes, loads of people around the globe support this notion as well.

Please tell me I'm not the one bursting your bubble on this one.

Now what you mention about having lived in Europe/other countries: I hear you. I've lived in other countries as well (Spain, Costa Rica, and a brief stint in Saudi Arabia). Everyone in all of these countries talks shit about the US. It's the cool thing to do. Like us talking shit about Facebook.

But what do they want come their birthdays? Xboxes! Call of Duty! Pizza and Coca Cola!

There is a deeply imbued adoration for America as a model of "all that a country can aspire to be" — and this image is what I'm referring to.

[EDIT:

you know, I knew since this was the internet, someone was going to bring up the whole "hey, did you know pizza is italian". Yes, I did. And as people from NYC or Chicago can tell you, the US has created it's own version which has taken on its own fame.

But while we're on it, did you know that French Fries aren't actually from France?

And to those who are going to take what I said as "because I buy these products I endorse America" , you have clearly missed the broader message of my post.

It's not about the specifics of Coke, Xbox, or fast food (I can't believe I actually have to explain this but, wait, yes I can). It's the overall "image" that America sells overseas. It's the reason why Hollywood movies are popular all around the world, yet not as much the other way around. Again, that is just ONE example, so no need to hyper focus on just that. The fact is, there's an undeniable adoration of American culture abroad --- and it exists RIGHT ALONGSIDE the contempt and disgust for American culture abroad.]

So you're extrapolating from the fact that people like Coke, Xboxes, CoD and pizza (which is Italian btw) that they must also adore America? That's way too much of a stretch.

There is no logical connection between the two following statements:

   - x buys american products  
   - x considers US the best political system in the world

There is a deeply imbued adoration for America as a model of "all that a country can aspire to be" — and this image is what I'm referring to.

There may have been briefly, just after WWII, but that hasn't been even slightly true for decades. Certainly not since Vietnam.

How I see the situation as an European and Finnish US is as a country and a democracy very mediocre or below median level. It's good place if you have top 95% percentile income but otherwise there are lot's of better places to live in.

In my view one part of the success of US is collective belief in American Dream. If you work hard and try you will get Rich. And this leads to kind of prove of infinite monkey theorem: when lot's of people try to achieve something eventually someone will. Of course this will benefit only small partition of people but others are still satisfied since they have a dream, hope for glory even rationally costs are higher than most probable profits ( see Income inequality in the United States, Socio-economic mobility in the United States, Poverty in the United States ).

I'm very happy that monkeys will keep trying and eventually produce great things to me to consume. This doesn't have anything to do with the democracy in the US though.

Tons of electronics and silly throwaway gadgets we have in the EU are produced in China. I guess that must mean we endorse and envy their political system as well.

Ridiculous conflation of politics, culture, economy and military.

Talking shit about US politics isn't just because it's "the cool thing to do", it's also because US politics is kinda shit, and it does affect us over here as well. And apparently all American people are so very helpless to do anything about it, even your president ...

> did you know that French Fries aren't actually from France?

yes, because nobody calls them French Fries outside the US and McDonald's :)

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