Comment by jbarham | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jbarham | Hacker News Reader

I'm Canadian and worked for over four years a software engineer in SoCal on work visas (TN then H1B).

My wife, an Aussie and high school teacher with several years of teaching experience in top international schools in Asia, couldn't legally work in the US. So she volunteered teaching ESL at a local adult school. Ironically many of her students were Hispanics who had originally entered the US illegally. Doubly ironically she got a special commendation award for her volunteering signed by George W. Bush's signing machine.

Eventually I got fed up with the bureaucratic farce whereby US visa regulations provide compliant, indentured foreign programmers to US businesses at below market salaries in exchange for the remote possibility that they'll eventually get a green card.

So I left and now live in Australia, where I am self-employed, can take time off to work on my own side-projects, and pay less than $300/month for private medical insurance for my family of four. American exceptionalism? Sure--if you're a sucker.

Similar story here. Indian citizen with a US masters degree. Left after working in the US for a year, travelled around SE Asia ,and then moved to Amsterdam! Can choose to work four days a week, have side projects and take 26 days of vacation a year.

H1B is totally a sucker's game.

That's cool! I was born in India but was brought up near The Hague. Any chance you might be able to share where you're working at the moment? Interested in know what opportunities there are in and around Amsterdam and Rotterdam. If you'd rather not post publicly, feel free to shoot me an email: me@kartikkumar.com. Thanks!

layar and Booking.com are intersting companies in Amsterdam.

Thanks for that! I was curious because Booking.com is the only company that I know of. Layar looks really awesome! I actually interviewed at Booking.com and got a job offer as Data Scientist. After a lot of deliberation I accepted a postdoc position instead but I'm going to keep my eye out for opportunities in Amsterdam for when my postdoc is done. Hope Layar is still doing awesome things when I check again!

There are also a lot of other companies like markplaats, ice etc. (LinkedIn is your friend)

How did you move to Amsterdam ? Is it like fulltime work or did you sponsor yourself with an EU Blue Card ? I'm always interested in learning about the various possibilities engineers have around the world! :)

I applied to a few companies, got an offer and moved with a Dutch residence and work permit. The whole thing took about a month. There is a huge demand for skilled engineers in the EU.

Indeed there is, I have a friend (Java developer, early 40ties) who moved to Amsterdam with his wife and two kids. It's pretty easy for in-demand jobs.

How hard is it to obtain permanent residency?

An interesting option for Americans looking to move to the Netherlands (or their territories) is the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty)

Interesting, i know a lot of americans go to Berlin but German laws make being a freelancer quite tricky. Interesting to see it's easier in the Netherlands.

It was quite easy for me to get a German visa as a freiberufler. Basically I just needed health insurance and to show that I had past income as a freelancer. It's been renewed each year without a problem.

Akaik it's harder to get a fixed job because the company must prove there are no locals who could do the job. It's just more paper work for them.

You both mentioned being able to do side projects. Do US visas prohibit that?

Yes, it does. With H1B visa, you cannot work for more than 40 hours and it has to be with a single employer.

Yes, at least the H-1B does prohibit earning income from any other 'projects' other than your sponsored job, with the exception of capital gains/interest from holding assets.

I did the opposite: Studied for Masters degree in Amsterdam. Worked for Dutch company. Left. Travelled around SE Asia. Moved to Los Angeles to work for start up.

I think if I wanted to I could easily work for 4 days; much easier than in Holland, but that was bigger company. Also, there is no limit on the vacation I can take.

Also, virtually anyone in Amsterdam or the rest of The Netherlands for that matter speaks English. Weather sucks though :)

Since we're sharing stories: come from Brazil to the US, it took me 2 months in 2008 (the height of the crisis) to get an interview in a place where they could actually sponsor H1B visas. Got job offer. The whole process to be able to start working took another 3 months. So I had to sit on my ass for 5 months doing nothing but wait for the USCIS.

I was working at a research lab that was part of Harvard Medical, therefore they could hire outside of the quota. But the "let's work on a/my startup" bug would bite my again, so I quit my job, moved to NYC and started checking with companies there. Uh oh, can't transfer my visa. Also, forget about unemployment checks, even though I paid for Social Security like everyone else.

Move to Berlin. Job offer in 2 weeks, paperwork finalized in 3 weeks. EU card valid for 5 years. If for some reason I leave this job for another one, all I need to do is notify the Ausländeramt. And anyone is eligible for unemployment insurance after 12 months of work/tax collection.

Similar story with Germany. I got the offer, applied for a visa in my home country on Friday, they called me with good news on Monday, and collected it on Thursday since Tuesday and Wednesday were off for new year's.

By the way I worked in Brazil for 7 months and the visa was just as quick. Lovely country. ;)

    I quit my job ... forget about unemployment checks, even
    though I paid for Social Security like everyone else

If you quit a job in the US you're not generally eligible for unemployment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefit...

> so I quit my job [...] Also, forget about unemployment checks, even though I paid for Social Security like everyone else.

Social Security is a completely separate system from unemployment; the only conceptual area of overlap relates to disability.

Unemployment is a different system of social insurance which you probably also paid into -- but its insurance against involuntary, no fault unemployment. Both voluntary termination (quitting) and termination for cause generally are outside of the coverage of unemployment insurance.

Your situation is special because you were married to an Australian. How would it be if she was a US citizen? It would probably be easier for you to legally work in the US than in Australia.

Married to a US citizen seems to be more an exception than the rule, as most H1B folks I know (incl. myself) move with their wife.

This is my 10th year anniversary in this country and you guessed it right, I am still on H-1B visa. Although my employer has filed for the green card, it is still a couple years away. I can decide to wait for my Green Card or I can start today. I decided the latter.

Having said that, I've started on this path just recently and believe me I am facing difficulties at every step, even the the ones I thought would be the most obvious. But again who said life was easy.

In case you are interested there are ways you can do business in the US on H-1B visa. Is it easy? Hell no! But in case you are still interested keep reading, feel free to reach out to me as I am going through this process right now.

Articles about Entrepreneur H1B:

- http://www.murthy.com/2012/12/17/entrepreneur-h1b-petitions-...

- http://www.uscis.gov/news/public-releases-topic/business-imm...

-http://blog.uscis.gov/2011/08/encouraging-entrepreneurs-and-...

- http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide

Further reading:

- http://blog.fosterquan.com/2012/12/09/the-sweet-smell-of-suc...

Success story of Vishal Shah from Traffio:

- http://www.nextbigwhat.com/how-to-startup-in-silicon-valley-...

Business Entity:

- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12qxuo_how-to-open-a-busin...

A point to note is that only those who were born in India/China have to deal with this long lead time. If you weren't born in any of these countries that have high immigration rates into America, you should have < 3-4 years path to a Green Card.

That's correct, I was born in India and hence will have to wait in line for my turn. It's just that if someone wants to start today can still do and need not wait for a green card.

I'm Australian and five years after I arrived, I am now eligible to submit my greencard application (adjustment of status).

Congratulations! You will be saving yourself from a lot of pain. And do start a company :)

Mind if I ask how you were getting paid a below market salary?

Part of the H1B approval process is that you get paid more than the average salary for the same job in your area. If your salary is below the regional average for your job, then immigration doesn't approve the visa.

Yeah, I too would like to know the answer to this question. I know quite a few people who are on the H1B in the Bay Area, there is nothing to suggest that those people get paid less than their counterparts on Green Cards/Citizens. I was briefly on the H1B for less than six months; the only thing I can imagine depresses wages is the fact that it is not easy to jump jobs. However, I can't imagine that creates that much of a wage differential.

> the only thing I can imagine depresses wages is the fact that it is not easy to jump jobs. However, I can't imagine that creates that much of a wage differential.

In my case I got a 40% raise taking a new job after being laid off from the previous one in a company downsizing. For the H1B in particular the visa is issued for a particular role at a particular company with a prescribed salary. If you want the green card you have to stay in that role for that company at that salary. Everything resets (unless you're at the very end of the process) if you switch employers.

That's kind of unique to your situation though, isn't it?

That rule is in place to prevent employers from gaming the system - i.e. hiring someone as a scientist to get through approvals, then firing and rehiring them as a low-wage janitor.

Nothing you mentioned had any relevance to the idea of "American Exceptionalism."

I am an American working and living abroad. I am very interested in your comment about being self-employed in Australia. Can write up about how to start a business there and the pros/cons?

I would love to read something like that.

Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency.

In terms of "starting a business" I just had to register for an ABN ("Australian Business Number"). That may not even be a legal requirement but IIRC it had tax advantages. It's a couple years since I did it but as I recall I did it all online in a couple of hours and it didn't cost much. I then just include that number on my invoice. Very civilized.

At some point I need to register to charge GST but I'm sure I can do that online too. At no point have I had to visit a government office or get a bureaucrat to sign anything to start a business in Australia.

Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency.

Even if you have a non Australian wife the process of being resident in Australia is pretty straightforward. I have a friend who is Argentinian and emigrated to Australia after finishing the university.

The criteria for having to register to collect GST for the government is something along the lines of "your business turnover exceeds $50,000 per financial year". I haven't been there, but I believe it's about as simple as you say; get an "auskey", and then you can do large amounts of the paperwork online.

As an Australian she should have been eligible for an E-3 visa. Basically we gave Australia easy visas in exchange for a trade agreement.

Not sure if she'd get that as a teacher? Its the same work requirements as a H1b, just for Australians.

Can't relate to your story. Moved my startup in early 2012 to the US on an L1 visa. Applied for Green card mid-2012 and got accepted in early 2013. From nothing to Green card in a year. Yes, you have to deal with some bureaucracy and get a good lawyer, but if you're intentions are good it's very possible.

From your sarcasm I read that you never really wanted to build a life in the US? That's fine, but don't start calling names just because you couldn't pull it off.

H1B and L1 are very different stories. If you manage to get a L1, things are much much easier. Not easy, though. Consider yourself privileged.

Your wife didn't do much research. As an Australian she would have been eligible for an E-3 Visa.

http://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-visas/u...

I had the job in the US, my wife didn't. Even if she did have her own E-3 visa that could have been jeopardized by my including her on my green card application on my H1B visa.

EDIT: The principal at the school where my wife was volunteering actually wanted to hire her as she was better qualified than some of the paid instructors she was helping. But at some level higher up the chain they had a policy of not sponsoring work visas, so that went nowhere.

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