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Comment by enraged_camel | Hacker News Reader

Wow. I like you blamed this entire mess on students and parents.

>>The real issue is that people feel entitled to the best schools and will so make absurd decisions to enable it

Nonsense. People want to send their kids to the best schools because the best schools are the gatekeepers to the upper class. Someone who graduates from an Ivy League school gets to build a network with affluent alumni and has a high chance of landing a job that pays six-figures right off the bat. Someone who goes to a merely good state school though? There is a very good chance they won't even find a job after graduation.

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You exaggerate. Mostly it's people who don't do well at their colleges that have trouble. At Ivy Leagues it's fewer people because they have the worst grade inflation and don't accept many borderline students.

For state schools there are lots of people at the margin - IE they don't do well enough to really reap a benefit from their degree.

Maybe getting good grades at a public won't get you 6 figures in your first job, but in most fields you aren't going to get that from an Ivy League, either.

But if you do well or choose a good major your in state school will be fine - you'll get a job, and it'll pay alright.

This is 3 or 4 times as true if you're planning on being something like a Nurse or a Teacher and less true if you're planning on being a hedge fund manager, but frankly if I were a student I'd be happy for the future hedge fund managers of the world to go somewhere else.

I have a degree from a cow college. I'm very good at what I do. But I'm at a disadvantage: my network doesn't include people who are valuable to know. The dudes who started Dropbox are dudes friends of mine knew in college. People like that aren't in my rolodex. That's what these colleges are for: social entry into that class of mover shaker, be it MIT for tech or an Ivy for politics. This stuff is the difference between having doors open to you and needing a crowbar to get anywhere. I happen to be both good enough to demand attention and savvy enough recognize when there's an opening, but I get that getting where I am now has been a luck-based thing.

And that's a tech degree, mind. I get the feeling you really have no idea how hard it is to find a livable-wage job if aren't in tech or cleaning bedpans. The idea that fundamentally irrational people - teenagers! - should be expected to make decisions to actively limit their upside based on a downside risk they literally cannot contextualize is a failure to understand humans.

I think it's fine to expect teenagers to make decisions.

The real problem is that we enable them with low expectations. Give students high expectations and teach them how to evaluate their options instead of giving them tripe, rule of thumb, and aspiration without realism or planning.

(Also, I do know people who've gotten 4 year degrees and then done things like become correction officers or pharmacy technicians (which don't require degrees).)

That said, there is something to be said for luck. And paying for entry isn't the only way to make connections. It's just the most disgusting, and part of the reason people think certain things resemble giant fraternities.

Hope is not lost in this situation - you just have to work at it more. I'm a stellar mind who also went to public schools for undergrad and grad, but I focused on self-development and networking after.

I went from $50k a year to likely over $120k (that is in negotiation) in the span of 1 1/2 years of hard effort &learning.

I too racked up lots of debt from school, about $200k total. I am forced to focus on money because of this. I made the decision to go all in on developing my career & making the decisions I deferred until after grad school.

You got into 200K debt with a CS degree? I assume you did a Masters from Stanford or some other elite place?

Math actually - it was a top 15 program

> Hope is not lost in this situation - you just have to work at it more.

I did. A "stellar mind" would also probably understand how much insane luck it took to get where I am with my rolodex, too.

> Someone who goes to a merely good state school though? There is a very good chance they won't even find a job after graduation.

You can't underestimate the psychological value people put on attending even just good colleges in your state, even when doing so isn't financially sound.

"Someone who graduates from an Ivy League school gets to build a network with affluent alumni and has a high chance of landing a job that pays six-figures right off the bat"

Absolutely not the case

So if I graduate anything from an Ivy League I'm getting a 6 figure job? No. Especially when fresh out of the school.

This is an idealization of schools in detriment of personal effort.

After some years of experience SCHOOL DOESN'T MATTER It doesn't. Really

A better school certainly helps in that initial step but it is more clear than ever it's not worth it

Tell that to the local company who has a policy of not hiring engineers from the state school that's just a few minutes away.

So, they can't work at that company, and?

Are they the only employers? Also, if you have to go to school X (outside of the state) and then come back, well, there are better choices, no?

There are always places that won't hire you because of your school, that's usually a red flag.

>>There are always places that won't hire you because of your school, that's usually a red flag.

The point is that there are many more places who will hire you simply because you have an Ivy League degree than there are places who won't even consider you because you are Ivy League. Whereas the exact opposite is true for local schools and community colleges.

Heck, forget the USA. Having a degree from a place like Harvard will pretty much guarantee you at least an interview anywhere in the world.

It's a fortune 100 chemical corp and the biggest employer in town

>Nonsense. People want to send their kids to the best schools because the best schools are the gatekeepers to the upper class. Someone who graduates from an Ivy League school gets to build a network with affluent alumni and has a high chance of landing a job that pays six-figures right off the bat. Someone who goes to a merely good state school though? There is a very good chance they won't even find a job after graduation.

If this is the case then these people need to quit whining. It's their choice - this is like saying that you need to mortgage your house to join a yacht or country club so you can make connections. Some people just have to work harder than others to make it, life isn't fair cry me a river. Many people from cheaper institutions are better at making connections because they excel in the personality and charm dept (thus they have the advantage). Is that fair? Many poorer people make it big because they are smarter or luckier... Is that fair? Your argument just shows how blatantly ridiculous this is.

People are complaining that education is so expensive and yet they are going to the most expensive school is ridiculous. This is like complaining that your Mercedes was too expensive when you could have bought a more reliable and efficient car for less money.

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