Hacker News Reader

Comment by brk | Hacker News Reader

What is your definition of "caught on"? They're doing about $50MM/yr in business, so there is a market.

The problem with Segway, IMHO, is that the initial hype was completely misdirected and Dean Kamen drinks far too much of his own Kool-Aid.

Segway has made a good inroads in the police and security market, as well as the tourism markets.

For what it does best, it's really not that prohibitive, but for consumer transportation, there is less ROI in most cases.

View on HN

Just a point of information: the original essay did not use the phrase "caught on." PG said: "The Segway hasn't delivered on its initial promise, to put it mildly.

Given that the hyped promise of the Segway was literally to revolutionize public transportation as we know it, I'd say the statement is accurate.

Plenty of that hype was media speculation and did not come from DK. 'IT' and 'Ginger' and a veil of secrecy were just about the only pre-release things that came from there, the hype blew it up way beyond reasonably expectations. The segway - which is innovative in many ways and has done a lot for robotics - could only dissapoint by the time it was released, no matter what it really was.

I wonder what would Segway's market be like if they could make a 20mph version that was safe to drive on city streets.

For the price of a segway you can get a motorcycle or a scooter or a moped or an electric bike, and drive it on city streets. Yet most Americans still drive cars. What benefits does a turbocharged Segway offer that these other options don't?

The i2 model can fit through a doorway. It can be picked up and moved by a reasonably fit person. It can be used indoors or out, and with some accessories can carry a small amount of cargo.

The general public bias against Segways is kind of understandable. Most people aren't capable of thinking outside the box. I'm always a little surprised when the hacker/entrepreneur community seems to jump on that bandwagon though. Even moreso today when so many people claim to be "green" advocates and will proclaim that we need to explore other modes of transportation, yet bash anything that doesn't have 4 tires and a steering wheel.

A bicycle can fit through a doorway, be picked up and moved, and carry a quite large amount of cargo. For the price of a Segway it could be equipped with a motor of similar speed and efficiency, or it can be run on human power. Unlike the Segway, the bicycle can go in the street and on dirt trails, has much greater maximum speed and range, and is cheap and easy to repair.

Sure, the Segway has advantages too - but when people suggest that it should go at 25mph in city streets, it's worth considering whether the Segway's unique properties actually contribute anything. Different tools are better for different jobs.

I'm all in favor of thinking outside the box, but things like cargo bicycles are more practical and interesting (though less sexy and high-tech) for my own city transportation needs: http://www.xtracycle.com/cargo-utility-bicycles.html

I don't think Segways were ever really intended to compete with bicycles. People make that comparison alot, but it's really not valid.

A closer comparison is a scooter or moped type of device. Those will fit through some doorways, but being gas-powered they are generally excluded from use or storage in most indoor areas. Cost is comparable, although the scooter would win out on distance and top speed. Most scooters are also too heavy for a single operator to pick up and move, and they also don't generally break down to fit easily in the trunk of a vehicle.

Segway's, even the non off-road models do quite well on dirt/trails, so that isn't an advantage for the bike. They could go in the streets as well, the only limitation there is erratic legislation, so it's hard to make a direct comparison.

My feet can fit into all kinds of places where Segways can't, and when I use them to move around I get the benefits of aerobic exercise and whole body movement.

Can you take a Segway into a pubic building?

Yes I go up and talk to people that ride segways whenever I see them usually in malls and the like and most use them because they are partially handicapped and have trouble walking and the segway makes them look normal.

I'll second that. I have a relative who can stand fine, but can't walk for long distances. The Segway makes it possible for him to travel distances that he otherwise would not be able to travel. He doesn't look like a dork when he rides it (in my opinion). Perhaps everyone just assumes that if you own a segway you are a pompous windbag with more money than sense. I wouldn't be surprised if most people see it as a luxury item that only the "elite" can afford, and therefore they resent the device's presence (as well as the rider's). Perhaps calling the person lazy is the best thing they can come up with which is derogatory. "Get that thing off the sidewalk you rich jerk" probably doesn't seem to have as much sting.

If you could flip a switch and the segway could go operate in the 10-70mph range, and flip it back to operate in the 0-10mph range, you could transition from street to sidewalk (vehicle to pedestrian.)

This would be worth the extra money and not be uncool.

But most likely illegal in most cities.

operate in the 10-70mph range

I had to laugh at the thought of a Segway doing 70mph. I'm all for taking risks, but have you ever done 50mph+ on just a moped?

Even at 70mph you'd still run into the problem pg expouses - looking like an effortless dork.

As for this bit - "imagine something that worked like the Segway, but that you rode with one foot in front of the other, like a skateboard. That wouldn't seem nearly as uncool." - have you seen the Scarpar? It's only 35mph, but definitely, definitely cool.

http://www.scarpar.com/video.html

at 70mph, you'd look like a dork committing suicide.

are you serious? this may be what the segway needs. Extreme segway sports. If i saw someone going 70 mph on a segway, my first thought would certainly not be 'what a square'.

Thanks for that link - that looks incredibly cool!

It's cool and looks fun, but I can't imagine people doing city tours or Mall security on it - that is, it's not in the same market as the Segway.

This similar idea, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm_2PnSkWck

... maybe. Looks a bit wobblier, but look at it in context - they are on a cycle path and they fit in perfectly well. Someone on a Segway would stand out quite a lot.

Posters on e.g. segwaychat.com have often said they'd like to have more speed. But I can't imagine falling at 20mph... it's bad enough falling at 12.5mph, believe me.

(The "dork factor" is what prevents me from doing the smart thing and wearing a skate helmet. Instead I only wear a pair of wraparound shades. Stupid peer pressure...)

Maybe if you had a helmet that looked like it took more work to wear...

But I can't imagine falling at 20mph... it's bad enough falling at 12.5mph, believe me.

I've never ridden a segway, but I have crashed my bike at this speed. I imagined that it would be really bad, but having done it a few times, it is really not that bad. You are moving parallel to the ground, so most of the energy is absorbed by the pavement slowly grinding the top layer of your skin off. Somewhat painful, and very bloody, but not life threatening.

I imagine that riding into a wall at 20mph would be pretty bad, though. All that energy instantly acting to crush your bones and internal organs. I haven't actually tried it, so this is just speculation. (Please report back if you try it ;)

(Oh, and as for the helment; I always wear one, but I have never landed on it while crashing. Let your arms and legs do the work :) I think you have to do something weird to land on your head.)

I managed to land on my head n the middle of the road from a bicycle accident when I was in high school. I hit a pothole and me and the bike went slightly different directions, I was tucking to roll when the top bar of the bike came down across my ankle and stopped the roll. That was the closest I have ever come to being knocked out, and it was very, very close.

EDIT: Although I was very dazed at the time, my ankle was actually injured worse than my head.

I hit a concrete block in the road once, and I think I went over the handlebars. I hit my face, though, not the helmet :(

Hey, I even have a picture: http://rants.jrock.us/post/55729583/good-idea-riding-your-bi...

This was a long while back, I wasn't wearing a helmet, no body I knew back then even had a bike helmet.

>> I think you have to do something weird to land on your head.

Not weird, just reckless. Like tolerating faulty rear breaks for a little while. What was I thinking :)... Anyway, the helmet took it and the dog that prompted the full stop got away unscratched...

Yeah, gotta be careful with respect to maintenance. I crashed earlier this summer because I shifted my chain into the spokes, locking the rear wheel in a turn. I knew the limit screw was set improperly, but I figured it was not enough to cause any problems. Well, I was wrong. I landed on my leg, though, and unclipped quickly enough that I didn't even scratch myself too badly. (Threadlock is your friend, BTW, so the limit screws don't unscrew themselves. I still pull the derailer cable before each ride to make sure the chain can't be shifted off the cogs, though.)

Also, did you use your front brake? I tend to see my rear brakes as a backup; I use it if the front brake fails, if the front wheel has poor traction, or if I'm descending and just want to slow the acceleration. The front brake can develop about 5x more stopping force, since the front wheel can't skid. And, if you are used to using it, you won't go over the handlebars in an emergency. http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

>>Also, did you use your front brake?

I used both but only the front worked. So I landed on my helmet, bike on top. Quite the other way than you, I tend to use mostly the rear break. Not being used to rely on the front, not in a "to the floor" way anyway is what got me. That and the lack of proper adjustment tolerated to the rear one.

Also, nice link. Thanks.

You have to use them both and learn how to apply more or less of one or the other depending on the circumstances.

Just an anecdote, but I saw an older gentleman riding a Segway in the street on Lexington avenue in Midtown Manhattan!

A couple of weeks ago in Paris there were a dozen or so people riding black Segways near the Eiffel Tower. Must've been a meeting of the local chapter or something.

They're used for some guided tours for tourists.

Not just in Paris--here in the fairly unremarkable town of St. Petersburg, FL, they have Segway guided tours.

Actually he drank his own urine (after going through his water purifier).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com