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Comment by keithwarren | Hacker News Reader

I am not an environmentally conscious consumer and I am going to buy one when our current lease is up. I am a monetarily concious consumer who sees the value in a high quality car which maintains its value well, has good purchase incentives. I also have a family and have seen the amazing safety record the car has put together so far and I am a hacker on top of all of it and have been to a Tesla center and explored the Model S. It is a technical marvel imho.

All of these things make me want one, not some green aspect.

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> I am a monetarily concious consumer who sees the value in a high quality car which maintains its value well, has good purchase incentives.

That makes no sense. How does buying an $89K car instead of a $25K hybrid save you money? These incentives better be of $64K in value, otherwise there is no monetary argument to be made here.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Model S, I think it is a wonderful car with tons of innovative technology inside (and, no, I am not just talking about the battery power). But there is no financial argument you could make that would justify buying one over a Prius or Ford Fusion.

The only reason the Model S appears to have such a good resale value is that there was a huge backlog for a while, and people were paying OVER retail price just to get ahold of one. Kind of like the Nintendo Wii the first christmas it came out, doesn't mean a Wii maintained that value over the medium to longer term.

You're looking at it from the perspective of a person that can't really afford a Tesla. When you look at the world and say "What's the best bang for the $100k I'm going to spend on my next car?" then you may feel a Tesla is a good monetary value based on resale value or other factors even though it's not the most economical way you could transport yourself back and forth to work.

Tesla S competes with E Class MB, latter costs ~55-65k.

100k S Class is much better car than Tesla S.

I disagree on the S class. It is bigger but I find nothing else about it 'better' and certainly not 'much better'

De gustibus non est disputandum

No doubt there are components of the Tesla S which are nicer than the S Class. But taken holistically, they are not in the same class.

Wheelbase, length, interior volume, rear legroom & headroom, overall refinement are all quite different between the Tesla S and M-B S. Though they do weigh about the same...

But as I said, de gustibus non est disputandum.

What about torque/throttle response?

I really like the idea of a car that seats a good sized family comfortably but can drag race with an M5. I've driven and loved some very high performance cars, the Tesla is incomparable because of that ridiculous immediacy. Not having to compromise on practicality to get it puts it in a class of its own, IMO.

Assuming Elon Musk comes through with his statement about not inflating prices for a specific country -- Tesla might start killing it in Australia.

(S Class starts at $215,000. E Class 4 door starts at $79K. Going up to 130 (or 250 for the AMG))

Tesla Model S costs $63k after tax rebate, and you'll save $3k per year on gas and oil.

MSRP is $106k with normal options (almost exactly the same as S Class), with a $7,500 rebate that comes out to $98k.

That's for the performance version. Check your facts.

http://bit.ly/Mtgrlq

It is not.

How much are you really spending on gas?

I paid $11,000 for my now 3 year old car when it was 2 years old. I didn't finance it so I didn't pay interest. I average about 35 mpg and drive about 12,000 miles a year. If gas was $4 a gallon that is about $1,412 a year. If I drove 15,000 miles a year that is $1,700 in gas. My owner's manual* says to change the oil once every 10,000 miles or once a year whichever is first. The dealership does that for me for free.

I'd have to drive my car for 30 years to make up the price difference between the cars ($52,000)

If you want to get a luxury car, then get a luxury car, but don't act like you're doing it to save money.

*it is no longer true you have to change your oil every 3,000 miles for most cars.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/how-do-you-really-know-when-to-c...

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4209/is-it-neces...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/your-money/11shortcuts.htm...

I call straw man argument. Take everything "electric drivetrain" out of a Tesla and it's still far beyond $11k echelon. Also, buying a car without financing it is surely not the norm, especially for cars in the class of a non-electric Tesla (for the sake of discussion) -- though I could be wrong, as it is a "luxury" vehicle, after all.

I'm interested in seeing your argument re-framed against the Nissan Leaf, which in this case is more of an orange than a Tesla, to your Aveo (?).

>Take everything "electric drivetrain" out of a Tesla and it's still far beyond $11k echelon

So what? I was arguing that nobody is buying a Tesla specifically to save money and that $3k in gas an oil is absurdly high. I didn't say the two cars were comparable, I said one actually saves money on personal transportation. If saving money is actually an issue, it wouldn't make any sense to go Tesla over the other options out there. Everyone has different priorities and "far beyond" is completely and entirely subjective to each person.

I don't have an Aveo but I did rent one before (if I recall correctly) and I didn't like them. I also negotiated the asking price of the dealership WAY WAY down.

Anyway if I made $10 million a year, I wouldn't change a thing about my car purchase.

OP said E Class Mercedes, so this is comparing against an E63--16 mpg.

> The only reason the Model S appears to have such a good resale value is that there was a huge backlog for a while

I'd be careful calling it the ONLY reason. It's true - for the mid-term range (6-24 months?), resale values will be inflated due to backlogs. I have a hunch that the cars will hold their value well, especially if the main depreciating factor is the battery pack getting tired.

Another factor, as well, is the potential for Tesla to produce another luxury car that's either heads and tails better than the Model S for a similar price, or of the same quality for a significantly lower cost (scale + battery prices dropping?). Either of these cases could whack resale values of current Model S's down.

A friend of mine just did a TCO spreadsheet comparing the Model S with various assumptions of depreciation to an Audi, Infiniti, Suburu Outback, and a few other vehicles. Even assuming 70% depreciation the cost per mile was less than most of the other luxury cars at the point you hit 128,000 miles.

To me it's comparing the > $50K class of vehicles. If you're going to spend $50K you may as well buy a $90K Tesla, because it will be cheaper if you keep it 6 years or more.

Not to mention that the Tesla (and other hybrid ev) have been holding their value better than any gas powered vehicles. Though you did say "even assuming" .. just wanted to make that point clear.

I'd love to get a Tesla S, but being I live in an apartment, it's not really a practical option for me.

All things are relative. I am not some gazillionaire for which money is no concern but I am financially successful enough that I look at money a bit differently that most. When I consider buying cars I expect a certain level of quality and craftsmanship that you typically only find in higher end automobiles. Given that as my baseline - the Model S makes a pretty compelling fiscal argument.

On top of that value and cost are not the same. The value represented by the Tesla can far outpace the cost factors between its sticker and those of a Prius or Fusion.

tldr; I am not in the market for a cheap car, I want a great car.

Why lease then when you could buy?

Personal thing really, started about 10 years ago. I dont drive often but when I do I want it to be an enjoyable and luxurious experience which I often equate with the freshness of a new car. I also get bored of the character of a car over time. Leases gives me a controlled and knowable insulation (given the rapid depreciation of new cars) from the value downside. Basically, I get the new car experience far more often without taking big cash hits.

>I am a monetarily concious consumer who sees the value in a high quality car which maintains its value well...

Wouldn't battery degradation bite into that?

Wouldn't battery degradation bite into that?

Not nearly as much as for some other cars, as it's a modular part that can literally be swapped out in 90 seconds.

Which degrades and cost more to fix - a battery or a transmission and other mechanical parts?

People act like current cars have no parts or things that go bad over time. Tesla batteries look like they should be at 85% capacity at 100K miles.

Well that's exactly what I'm asking right?

If the quick charging mechanism is going to be "have a robot physically remove the battery and put a new one on" in a few years, then that's not as much of an issue.

I wasn't aware that Tesla were planning to go that route! Awesome if true :)

Swap demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZU0wnpyhF8

I will flip it before that becomes a concern, I am usually in and out of a car in under 3 years. I get bored easily.

Have you considered leasing? That might be more financially reasonable for you. Then again, you may be in the money range where when you sell your car, it is worth more money than you have left on the loan, so you're more or less ahead.

Just out of curiosity, would you be likely to buy one without the assorted tax incentives?

Yes, the federal is the only one that applies for me. My states has nothing in addition.

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