Have you spoken with your lonely friend today?

`Suicide is a personal choice`

I hear this all the time, and I could not disagree more. As someone who has been "there" more than once, suicide is not a personal choice.

And I'd also like to extend the same offer. I've been blessed to have someone else on HN do this for me and contribute to my recovery. If there's someone you need to lend an ear and listen, or speak with you, I'm here.

I stated that because it is, regardless of its net effect. I do not condone it, nor is it an excuse to do nothing. But the battle against suicide must be fought, ultimately, in the hearts and minds of those who are likely to succumb to it. I did not mean to be callous or ignorant.

> Suicide is a personal choice

This is a naive understanding of suicide. It is the choice of someone who thinks there is no other reasonable alternative. People who are suicidal need help identifying other strategies for dealing with their depression, and they need help choosing those other strategies.

There are many people who have contemplated or attempted suicide at some point, and then got the help they needed. Sometimes they seek this help out on their own; sometimes others push them to get help. Many of these people then go on to live entirely productive and satisfying lives.

If you know someone who is suicidal, by all means talk to someone who knows how to handle the situation. Don't be afraid to ask someone if they are contemplating suicide; you won't be "planting" the idea for anyone.

As stated above, i meant no offense. I do believe, that like drug addiction, one can have support and knowledge and experience, but the battle is won or lost in the mind of the actor.

The real issue here is my own struggle between the ideals of personal freedom and my heart breaking over the brothers and sisters i lose every day. I reserve the right to check out whenever i want, but it must be on my terms and in my control. I personally believe that being an untreated manic/depressive is tantamount to lack of control. Ditto for young people who are trapped by a fabricated environment. If a cancer victim wants to top, who am i to say no? I realize these are extreme thoughts, and i am sorry if my phrasing is crass.

I attempted suicide at age 17 and although I am not prone to depression, I live with a lot of stress and a serious medical condition. Those two facts often leave me suicidal in spite of not being prone to depression.

Encouraging people to "talk to their lonely friend" is encouraging them to act out of pity. That is not the antidote. Think of the phrase "pity fuck" or even "charity case." The antidote is to help people become valued members of society and help them learn to get their emotional and other needs met. This is best done from a position of strength, not a plea for "please pay attention to me so I don't kill myself" or similar.

I have value. I know things of value. One of the reasons I struggle with being suicidal is that I have been marginalized and cannot get most people to take me seriously. I am working on that -- on my credibility and on how to get people to understand that, no, I am not a charity case (in spite of being homeless and deeply in debt). I am someone who has something of value to offer.

I wrote some piece of crap yesterday and then redacted it in part because I felt it came across beggarly, which is not my intent. I have something of value to say. But I am struggling with the how to effectively communicate it. I need help with how bridge the communication gap. I don't need pity. I have gotten charity. Charity helps you survive from one day to the next. It does not help you become established as a professional. It does not improve your reputation and improve your positioning so you can better take care of yourself.

I tend to care deeply about everyone I meet (an Achilles heel, which annoys me to no end). I don't do "pity fuck" emotional stuff. People who realize I am unusually accepting and nonjudgmental often are drawn to me because they think I will "love" them when they feel unlovable. But they are essentially asking me to love them because they are unlovable. That is a doomed proposition. People who will love you because you are broken are sick. They need to be needed. Those so-called friendships don't last. When you stop being pathetic, they end because you no longer need a crutch and the other person can't relate to you as a better person than the hurt little puppy who followed them home.

I hope that makes some sense. We do this by building a better world, where we generally treat people better. We don't do it by promoting pity. We do it by promoting compassion, patience and tolerance for everyone, in all walks of life.

Though I have been crapped on enough I am currently running rather short on those things myself at the moment. So perhaps my theory is wrong. Perhaps it really is a dog eat dog world and perhaps that is as good as it can get.

Peace. And ((HUGS)) if you want them.

Holy shit; so many great points. First off, you are quite adept at explaining yourself, via text anyways, so your effort is paying off.

I agree completely in regards to Pity. It is worse than hatred in my opinion. More insidious, crippling, and degrading, but that is my opinion.

My message was not out of pity, nor does it encourage it. It was a little reminder to make an extra effort to talk to people you know want to be talked to but are for whatever reason having a hard time expressing that desire. There have been so many posts about the first part of deepening our social awareness of the lost and lonely. I want to push further.

So i will do this from time to time. Take it as pity, call me weak, i care not. I am here because someone took the time to talk when i was not able to but desperately in need of it.

I do not hug, but i will firmly place my hand on your shoulder and look deeply into your eyes.

My concern is that other people will interpret it as encouraging them to take pity on others. A little reframing would likely serve your goal a bit better.

But we all do what makes sense to us. And I am certainly not the boss of you, just hoping to help you up your game, if I can.

Take care.

Human connections are complex and it seems we are losing the skills necessary to interact with one another in other situations than a specific set. Maybe it's also related to aging but I get the feeling that calling someone to grab some beers it's a lot less common now than interacting via facebook.

The book "Feeling Good"[0] by Dr. David Burns might help you with your depression.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...

In this regard, i feel we must be the change we want to see.

(((hugs)))

This isn't really the way to do it. I wish it were, but it's not.

Then how? and where? this community is in no way the only one to suffer from self harm, but i view Devs, Admins, and Hackers like Tolkien's Noldor: super powerful, long lasting, but relatively thin on the ground and susceptible to Morgoth's machinations... yeah, the metaphor kind of broke down...

...i will not take this silence as reenforcement of my depression...