Yamaha's Latest Silent Brass | Hacker News Reader

Yamaha's Latest Silent Brass

createdigitalmusic.com

209 pointsjamesjyu32 comments

I have an original first generation Yamaha Silent Brass for trumpet. This page doesn't show one or even really compare the new one to the old one. It's freaking enormous! I think it juts out of the bell of a trumpet a good 6 inches at least, and the amplifier is pretty darn big too ... the size of a paperback book.

This page doesn't say anything about the back pressure from the mute. I wonder if it's any different from the original. I used the silent brass all through college and didn't have many opportunities to play without it, and frankly it screwed up my playing.

Here's a picture of the original from 1995 http://www.yamaha.com/design/award/images/img_sb-7.jpg

Re: back pressure - that's what I was most interested in, and I was sad to see it not addressed. I got a silent brass mute for my horn (trombone) a couple of years ago, but found that playing with the mute in (like any other practice mute that I have used) felt extremely different than playing without; especially in lower registers. Even the older version was magical - making me silent but still able to hear myself, but the cost is long term usability.

I'm a string player. You can get practice mutes for string instruments, and somewhat analogous to back pressure, they change how the instrument responds to the bow. The result is that you can practice some things (left hand technique, repertoire) but not others.

For myself, I'm practicing for pleasure and not to advance professionally. Muting my instrument would spoil it. Fortunately I've got a tolerant family and a detached house.

Would an electric instrument help, or do they feel too different from acoustic, too?

Too different. Actually, another instrument that I play is electric bass, and I simply practice it unplugged.

I bought a really inexpensive soft tone mute on the basis of this comparison review in the ITA Jourmal: http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/viewarticles.asp?Ar...

Sadly, that article is a few years out of date. Still, my big takeaway was that I would be willing to forego some attenuation and even cope with modest back pressure if the mute didn't mess with the tuning properties.

I've been pretty happy with the soft tone mute. It's pretty quiet (but louder than most), is better than many practice mutes for back pressure, and seems to have little impact on tuning. For reference, I'm playing a King 3b, no f attachment.

Maybe if I start spending more time with my horn again, I'll consider the silent brass as it seems pretty sweet for recording.

Could a trumpet be adapted to have an extra valve after the mouthpiece but before all of the other parts, that diverted a certain amount of the airflow, and thus would make the playing experience more similar, or do I not understand the physics of brass instruments ;-) ?

That would screw up intonation/pitch.

It's much smaller, and apparently far less back pressure.

Watch this video: http://youtu.be/Hm-jX-rSKS8?t=2m4s

Around 2 minutes.

You'll see it being removed, how large it is in the instrument, as well as the reactions.

Those lucky brass players! We saxophonists have to deal with stuff like this: http://www.wwbw.com/E-sax-Practice-Mute-System-for-Alto-Saxo...

I remember a tenor sax hanging off my neck was enough work let alone having its entire hard case attached :) It seems, to me, the best solution for all of these issues is just to rent a practice space and go play until your cheeks and lips fall off. I am pretty amazed with how the trumpet output sounds through that Yamaha mute, though - it looks like you could even circuit bend that gadget to do some nasty things to a trumpet's tone.

Yeah, it really is remarkable! Synthesized brass/winds are generally quite bad. I was very skeptical, but watching the video changed my mind. I do have an old trumpet lying around...

I did see a video for the sax case where a person had it mounted on some kind of stand, so that's probably a lot more feasible!

I don't think they're actually synthesizing anything in the traditional sense...just essentially using a DSP to convert sound in the bell to natural room sound.

Fellow sax player here. I've never seen anyone use one of those.

also a sax player. do those practice bag thingies even work? i'd rather just use my ewi if its really a time of day making actual sound is not allowed.

Whoa. I've never seen that before. I play trombone. And I've never felt bad for sax players until now :-)

Wow, that thing is nuts! I thought I had it bad with drums.

I'd love to hear if anybody's ever used this and had success with it.

I have an original one of these for french horn. While the amp/sound processing was cool, the really great thing was the air flow. It added such a minimal amount of resistance that you could practice in hotel rooms and avoid trips to the practice rooms in winter without totally ruining your tone or having your range affected.

This is cool, and a great improvement over the previous generation Yamaha product. However, "Brass Resonance Modeling" may be confusing to some non-tech savvy consumers as it sounds similar to "physical modeling," a method of synthesis. The technology improvements are not synthesis, but rather a non-generative process more similar to a pair of noise-canceling headphones.

Can you cite any more specific info? I'm very curious. From the demos, the sound externally and direct is pretty much equivalent to the silent brass system I picked up in 1999, but without that huge bulb sticking out of the bell of course!

If anyone is interested in brass physical modelling, there are some neat sound examples here: http://www.ness-music.eu/target-systems/brass-instruments

I've been wondering about analogous things for flute, clarinet and cello. From what i read here, they're all compromises, except for a heavily baffled room in the basement. I really liked an Azola electric (solid body) double bass that i tried but i was too slow in making a decision, and they're now very hard to find.

I too am always on the lookout for the equivalent of this for the clarinet. My wife plays, but with two children in an English house it's hard to practice.

If you do find something promsing give me a buzz. I would be very grateful.

While we're talking Yamaha, i should mention my digital piano by them is pretty noisy while playing on headphones, i.e. the keybed thumps pretty audibly to everybody else within 30 yards. I think Korg and Roland keybeds are a little softer, but caveat piano players, not as great a 3AM instrument as you would think.

This is neat!

FYI, they have had "practice mutes" on the market for a very long time now! http://www.wwbw.com/Trumpet---Cornet-Mutes-Brass-Mutes,Mute-...

I still hope they'll be able to create a synthesized instrument capable of reproducing the sound of the bassoon. It is such a complex instrument. :/

It's called virtual instruments, search for VST, DAW, MIDI.

I'm making an electronic musical instrument. Still in development. I'll think about what you've just said, as the plan is design more than one kind.

My wife wants to know if Yamaha makes this for humans. She thinks me and my side of the family talk too loud.

i wonder if this can make a cheap brass sound like an expensive one :)

I might start playing French Horn again thanks to this!

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