taking the car to the toyota repair place, they said there was nothing wrong with the car, and nothing strange in the computer's logs.
taking the car to the toyota repair place, they said there was nothing wrong with the car, and nothing strange in the computer's logs.
And they always always focus on the car manufactuer of the moment. It used to be Audi's, and it's confirmed that a whole bunch of Jeeps actually will do this at car washes due to static discharge (problem's never really been fixed).
I would also expect that he would recognize it if the accelerator pedal had been stuck on a floor mat.
I think it's interesting that even in a small forum such as HN, we still have an anecdote. It's also interesting that car owners still claim to experience the acceleration problem after the two (mechanical) recalls.
It reminds me of the Therac 25 incident, where there were only "anecdotes" to be found for _years_, and the company concluded that a mechanical switch had to be the fault. It's very interesting that we now have evidence that the software _can_ be at fault.
There's also no specific reason to think the driver would identify various mundane fault conditions - i.e. if your car lurches forward and you hit a taxi, then such an impact would be enough to unwedge a stuck carpet.
There's also lots of unknown detail - i.e. if the car was accelerating out of control while you road the brake, and you hit something at 5mph, then did the car stop accelerating at that point? Was the engine damaged and it stopped then? Why not shift into neutral if you're cognizant of the fault condition? Did the car not shift or what happened etc. In these cases make and year model - in Thailand - is pretty important too, since its a market which would have a lot of old used cars. A 1980s model minivan is going to have rather different throttle control.
It's all the hallmarks of urban legend, replete the buy-in line of it being foreign cars - which is how the story always goes and is played with the media. Sure, I'm willing to believe there are real control system issues, but it seems odd to me that no recall notices go out for ECU updates.
That there have been tens of deaths and millions of car recalls because of unintended acceleration in Toyotas cars is at least not an urban legend. Of course it will be very difficult to locate the exact problem, but this testimony is interesting in that it shows how that can be the case (contrary to what Toyota has claimed) [Edit: And they have actually been able to reproduce unintended acceleration by memory corrupption].
The downside is that hitting the break would not cut the gas.
The upside is that you would need two separate isolated systems to fault in order to have out-of-control acceleration. Even if the accelerator system is broken, slamming on the breaks will generally always win at the hardware level.
IIRC, I think for the court case, the brakes for the particular model of car could physically not stop the engine if the engine was going 100% acceleration at highway speed.
The transcript from the toyota case reveals that a crash on the control thread (managing acceleration, say) would also crash the brake control system until the car was restarted.
Actually this points to his story being incorrect. If he slammed on the brakes and the car continued to accelerate than he probably slammed on the gas by accident instead. Testing shows that if you slam on the brakes while the engine is pegged at full throttle, you'll still come to a screeching halt. The brake system vastly overpowers the engine even in high powered cars. In a Camry V6 it actually takes just 16 feet further to stop from 70mph with the throttle wide open at 190ft vs. 174ft.
And the brake system is not drive-by-wire like the throttle is, so it's not susceptible to faulty ECU problems.
Btw, there have also been Prius recalls due to faulty ABS software, so while you'll probably always have some control, braking action can certainly be affected by software issues.
Also hitting the wrong pedal is not exactly uncommon. People don't like to admit they just made a mistake, hence claims of "unintended acceleration". But just like the claims against Audi back in the day, the modern claims against Toyota appear to be unsubstantiated.
Some people might be unwilling to admit that they stepped on the wrong pedal, but the likelyhood that some random HNer would do that and then make a post about it?
ABS brakes work by relieving _or_ reinforcing brake pressure, so depending on the system you could end up with uneven, little or no braking action after a failure. Or you could end up with locked wheels.
And I don't think HNers are somehow less likely to hit the wrong pedal or refuse to admit it. There's always that possibility that they don't even know they hit the wrong pedal.
..and the 400% increase of unintended acceleration events (from the testimony) starting in 2004 is also a complete accident, or brought on by some witchhunt?
Aren't you stretching the limits of what is a reasonable assumption in order to maintain that opinion?
If i pushed the accelerator instead of the brake, you can sure bet I would have done more than just "bump" the taxi in front of me.
The brake was fully pressed to the floor. The engine downshifted and revved to try to move forward. Dunno what else to tell you. Sure seemed like the computer going crazy to me when it happened.
my minivan is a toyota innova. dunno the year, a 2011 or 2012. And this happened BEFORE i heard of any software glitches. And right when it happened my first thought was "MY GOD THE COMPUTERS GONE CRAZY"
edit: oh and one more thing: I'm a 1 foot driver, and i could tell if my foot wasn't on the brake! ;)
i mention in another reply: i thought it was the computer's fault, and only months later did I see articles about other toyotas having the same problem due to a software bug.