Apple Sold More Macs and iDevices Than All Windows PCs Sold in Holiday Quarter | Hacker News Reader

Apple Sold More Macs and iDevices Than All Windows PCs Sold in Holiday Quarter

ben-evans.com

21 pointsuladzislau54 comments

To me, those are two different market segments. Call me back when Apple sells more Macs than PCs.

Agreed, but that's another statistic for another day. This isn't a story about market segments, but rather Apple platforms/strategy versus Microsoft platforms/strategy.

Where I think the analysis falls down is that Microsoft should be awarded XBox system sales on its side of the ledger -- surely they're at least as much of a computer as an iPod Touch?

They're not. I think it's more difficult to make the argument that an XBOX is used for general computing purposes (and would therefore warrant a great level of activity, activity which overlaps significantly with what you would do on a laptop/desktop) than you would for an iDevice.

Though even amongst iDevices you can make distinctions. It's pretty blurry which is why I think the OP seems to be right (though not at that extreme), but I don't think including the XBOX would be a good enough offset.

As far as I'm concerned, you can either compare market segments (computers OR phones) or you can compare product strategies.

Apple's strategy is focusing on small form factor consumer products. Microsoft's (successful) strategies are focusing on workplace and living room. Both companies appear to have successful respective strategies, though the big story is how Apple's new products have stolen share from a huge number of competitors:

  - Sony Walkman, et al
  - Nokia, et al
  - Nintendo
  - Windows computers

And probably others.

Apple is also selling into the living room. The Apple TV sells 6-7 million of them a year.

Not only that, but how exactly does one track sales of Windows PCs, and what constitutes a PC in this context? Do laptops count? Does Surface?

I don't think I've ever met a gamer who didn't build their own rig, and I'd assume, though can't say for sure, that the number of people who did so in Q4 is non-trivial.

He added in laptops and tablets as explained in the comments. He notes the sources, I believe it's shipments only so people building their own machines probably don't count for the total.

Oh yeah?! Well General Electric sold more toasters, conventional ovens, microwaves, light bulbs, refrigerators, washers, dryers, and ovens than Apple did Macs and iThingies! So take that! Hah!

Are you sure? It's been ages since I've purchased any of those things, yet I have 5 iPods, 3 iPhones, 4 iPads, 2 iMacs, and 2 MBPs, sitting within 50' of me right now. And the light bulbs I've purchased in the past 2 years have not been from GE. Just sayin'

It's interesting how people compare Apple's sales of different categories to its competitors single category.

They're comparing it because people are starting to use mobile devices as replacements for PCs. Apple wants you to buy an iPhone or iPad over a Mac because it has higher margins, but the point is that Microsoft has a steadily decreasing share of the "computing" market which could have been potential Windows/Windows Phone licenses sold.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgTIjxNCUAA-Dw_.png

In that case they need to include Android phones and tablets, Windows phones and tablets and Blackberries.

Since when did android phones or blackberries run windows?

Maybe when Bill quits curing malaria and gets his hacker groove back.

I think he was getting at the licensing fees that Android manufacturers and Google pay to Microsoft on a per-phone basis.

That's a far-fetched reason to include android devices in the category of windows pcs.

> They're comparing it because people are starting to use mobile devices as replacements for PCs

Sure, if you spent all your time on Twitter and Facebook and you like 4" keyboards it's great.

The only interesting comparison here would be between tablet and notebook sales, because they are the only 2 markets that somewhat overlap.

How many people do you know who own an iPhone and don't have a computer as well? Saying that people buy new computers less often because they spend some of that money on smartphones could make sense, but saying smartphones are taking over sounds kinda silly.

My first thought was similar to yours, but reflecting that most of Apple's iDevices cost as much or more than a low- to mid-level laptop or PC, I don't think the comparison is so unfair.

The trend may be even more important than the absolute numbers.

Comparing apples to oranges yield better understanding than apples to apples.

You couldn't handle being told the silliness of your analysis which is why you closed your comment thread. You are comparing a single product line from a company to Apple's whole armory and have the audacity to call it historic. Shame

Exactly. "iDevices" include iPods. What exactly is the point of comparing iPods to PCs? If you're going to do that, you should add in Xbox and Windows server sales on the Microsoft side.

If you'd read the post, you'd know that it includes iPod Touches only. And neither Xboxes nor servers are personal computing devices.

> single product line from a company

Actually, there are quite a few companies selling Windows computers.

I left a sample of very silly comments up but got bored of telling people to read the post before commenting, and deleting trolls.

I'm comparing the dominant computing platform of the last 30 years with the niche player in mobile. As the blog post says.

so I'm guessing in this analysis you are the judge of what's silly and what's not? Chances are, all the ones you regarded as silly were going against you.

Why not just man up and let the crowd speak, that's who you wrote the article for after all, isn't it?

> The comments to this post were entertaining but not very valuable, especially since almost all of them made complaints about things that weren't actually said. So I've closed comments.

Yeah, might want to close the article for similar reasons.

I for one enjoy this trend despite being a fan of Microsoft more than Apple. I can now envision Microsoft as the scrappy underdog fighting the Apple hegemony. Ah, to become a hipster Microsoft fan.

(I'm only half kidding. I've had friends suggest that their kids see Windows Phones are more appealing than iPhones because iPhones are for adults. These are probably oddball kids, but it made me laugh. Microsoft? Hip? Surely you're mistaken.)

I had three iPhones (3G, 4, 4s) and my Windows Phone Lumia 928 is the best phone I've ever had.

As for iPhone, it really is the grandparents that are buying them now. Between Android and Windows Phone, there are a lot of great options.

Although I am currently trying to think of a way to get the Lumia Icon while I'm still under contract.

The sound isolation in the drag-racing video is quite compelling. If I were on Verizon, I would be doing the same.

I'm on AT&T, so I need to wait for a similar 5" device. No phablets allowed in my household! I'm hoping they have something fitting right in time for my 920 contract to wrap up.

Why would the author count iPhone but have to optionally count Windows Phone?

That would require a change to the title of the article so maybe that's why.

Really, why can't somebody make a PC laptop that can compete... Required things to sell:

1. Good battery life. (7hrs or more under light use)

2. Good form factor - this means light weight, metal chassis + decent smallish lightweight charger, ideally with non-fatal charge connection when power cord is tripped over by animal/small child/drunk person. I don't want a 2kg laptop if I have to carry around a 1kg charger.

3. SSD + good GFX + high res panel

4. Good keyboard + trackpad

The only thing I've seen come close is this: http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/08/gigabytes-aurous-dual-gpu...

And that gets a three hour battery life, which fails on my no. 1 priority list. Looks like I just need to pay up for a Macbook Pro Retina, which according to Apple's site, is "New" and it was released in October 2013.

I will happily drop £2k+ for the above.

I'm sure there will be something that I've overlooked that disqualifies it from your requirements, but I've been using a Yoga 2 which seems to do what you want. Graphics aren't great (Intel :/), but it runs DOTA 2, so that's me covered. Decent battery life (6hr of video playback), excellent form factor (kinda the point of the machine), 3200x1800 screen, and nice leopard (though that's subjective I guess)

I do have to say that i love the leopard on the Yoga 2 also. For me the 13" screen isn't a problem for my 40+ year old eyes, but I do understand why someone wants a larger form factor. For me the portability and tablet<->laptop convertibility are way more important.

This is one of the more exciting machines on the market. It's about the only thing that tempts me...

How is the trackpad? Is it Macbook quality? I'm asking this as someone who is really looking to buy a Yoga 2.

I don't love it, but I've never loved a trackpad. Usually I'll be using the touchscreen and/or an external mouse if I plan on doing any serious work, as navigating with one finger is hardly my idea of fun. On the other hand, Macbook users seem to love their mouse controls, so I presume the trackpad must have some secret sauce to induce such a usage pattern (I've never used a Macbook for long enough to comment).

Trackpads on non-MacBooks generally suck, I've never used one that is really usable. On the other hand, even a MacBook running windows via bootcamp has a nice trackpad experience, so it must be more than just the driver's fault.

If you're willing to shill out so much, try these guys: http://www.emperorlinux.com/systems/small/

They do Linux laptops, so everything arrives working. They have a number of form factors, and build custom machines. They're a small company, but I had one of their OEM's for a few years and it was great.

Again... they look nice, but:

up to 14" @ 1600x900 2000 - 2900 MHz 4 G - 8 G RAM 180 - 500 GB Hard Drive DVDRW Drive 3 pounds

That in all honesty is not what I'm looking for. For comparison, Apple specs, for the same money (or less):

15-inch: 2.0GHz with Retina display Specifications 2.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz 8GB 1600MHz memory 256GB PCIe-based flash storage1 Intel Iris Pro Graphics —

Built-in battery (8 hours)

Looks like I can get closer with the medium builds, but they still don't have a metal chassis (unless I'm missing something). I didn't see a way to ditch the optical drive either.

Edit - This is very compelling however:

> nice portable empkernel RPM (or DEB) ... Yes, it's still open, and you get all the sources.

- http://www.emperorlinux.com/quality/value/kernel/

http://www.cnet.com/laptops/hp-spectre-13t-3000/4505-3121_7-...

Plenty of good Windows laptops.

I should have said above, ideally I want 17" of screen real-estate. 13" is just too little for my 30+ year old eyes. It does look nice though.

Also, this fails massively for my high res panel criteria. The above is 1366x768. I honestly can't imagine running something like xcode on a resolution that low. Certainly not in a productive fashion anyway. Forget having Photoshop or Illustrator open at the same time.

"Spectre 13 can upgrade to 2,560x1,440 for an extra $70"

I'd like to point out that Microsoft has sold more copies of Win8 than Mac has sold of OS X since it has been released. However, I do like the idea of Microsoft as being our last hope of fighting the Apple monoculture.

Actually, Vista has a higher market share than OS X 10.9:

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share....

I'm just curious your source on this? Not that I think you are lying, just curious.

except you forgot xboxs and windows servers probably.

Lets take a step back, fundamentally MS, Google, and Apple are all successful companies.

They all have different approaches to the market and their numbers of units shipped, profit per unit, total profit, and total revenue vary wildly.

Would counting surface devices help?

Counting Android phones would.

Android phones don't run windows and are not made by Microsoft.

Even though Microsoft would probably love to agree with you, I don't think it's accurate to attribute Android sales to Microsoft.

The Surface runs Windows, but I don't think they sold enough to really move the needle.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com