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Comment by vbuterin | Hacker News Reader

There is a huge moral difference between the sort of victimless-crime-contraband that is on SR (especially since SR1 at least, not sure about SR2, actively filtered out child porn, weapons, assassinations and all of the other truly scary things that you can potentially sell on an anonymous market), and stealing millions of dollars from people at least a few of whom are dependent on substances and desperately need the money to get them in time.

Also, it hasn't really happened yet, but vigilantes.

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LOL @ "victimless-crime-contraband." What a joke. Where do you think the majority of drugs come from? Some hippie's backyard? See the world's stop producers of drugs and you'll find violent, broken countries many of whom are run by drug cartels.

I suggest you think a bit harder about the causes and effects of this situation, because you seem to have them reversed.

How we got here is largely irrelevant to the very real fact that the drug trade is impossible to describe as victimless.

That attempt at logic could be applied to any number of otherwise harmeless situations. It doesn't really hold up imo.

It is not impossible. Some guy grows weed in his spare room and sells to his friend. No victim there.

That's certainly not the reality of the cocaine and heroin trade.

Take this one further, and you might ask why it's all run by cartels. We make it profitable for them with prohibition. We give them the resources to wage these wars ourselves. The only reason this violent industry exists is because the government makes it that way with unjust laws. Tax and regulate just like alcohol and it will be run by normal non-violent people. Just like liquor stores. Prohibition has never and will never work.

Notice that morality doesn't have to have anything to do with this argument. As a matter of pragmatism, the operator of a Silk Road-type site is almost certain to harbor a conviction that he can do so without getting caught (regardless of whether the authorities have morality on their side).

The same same goes for stealing from your customers: of course you won't get caught, what are your victims going to do? File a police report that the money they gave to a contraband site to presumably purchase contraband was stolen? The same conviction that makes it possible for them to operate Silk Road 2 makes it possible for them to steal from their customers.

I think what he's trying to say that it's far less likely for a libertarian "legalize drugs" type of person to screw a bunch of people over.

Like, when you facilitate selling drugs, there is no victim. Hell, you probably prevented having a victim. When you facilitate selling weapons/assassinations/child porn, there is a victim. The latter type of person would be more likely to victimize his/her customers than the former.

> Like, when you facilitate selling drugs, there is no victim.

Ah, I'm pretty sure only libertarians feel this way...

This does not invalidate my point. Even though it may not be true, many people think that running a drug dealing website is for the betterment of society. It's less likely for the owners to rip its customers off and be the "bad guy".

You'd be wrong. Plenty of people on the left say the same thing.

Hell no!

I'm far from libertarian but the drug laws are a travesty and selling restricted substances is pretty much the definition of a victimless 'crime'.

The myth of the first-hit-is-free, sell-at-the-school-gates 'pusher' is mostly just that, a myth. If you buy drugs you are not a victim. You may have problems and I believe that we should make government assistance available for those that do. However right now the state and its laws criminalise whole swathes of society for no good reason - there is no victim.

> it's far less likely for a libertarian "legalize drugs" type of person to screw a bunch of people over.

Why? Does being libertarian somehow grant a +3 to morality?

please stop with this idle speculation. 'the operator... is almost certain to..."? give me a break. you don't know them and ametur hour psychology isn't going to contribute anything to the discussion.

> especially since SR1 at least, not sure about SR2, actively filtered out child porn, weapons, assassinations

Except for when they needed those things.

> between the sort of victimless-crime-contraband that is on SR

Are you really that naive, or was that for the sake of your argument?

There's no way the drugs they sell on SR come all from some dude's dorm room, specially if it's not weed, and if they want it to be a profitable business.

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