US invasion plan for Canada (1920) [pdf] | Hacker News Reader

US invasion plan for Canada (1920) [pdf]

strategytheory.org

38 pointsvinnyglennon44 comments

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The last time we marched on Montreal, Washington DC ended up razed and Congress fled the Capitol.

In light of that, I might be coerced into supporting an invasion of Canada...

Canada isn't a British colony now so it's doubtful the redcoats would burn the White House this time.

Redcoats no, Canadians yes.

* Canuckistanians

ooooo the Canadians are coming. What ever shall we do?

But the Queen's Guard is dependent on the Canadians for the bear skins they need to make those giant grenadier hats. If we invade Canada and put that vital commodity in jeopardy, the regiment may attack the White House in the name of outrageous fashion (also because those hats insult the French, every time they wear them, so it's a 2fer).

I'm genuinely unable to tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

If you marched on Montreal, we'd let you have it.

Next time it might be a good idea to not spare the Patent Office...

This would make a great comedy. USA invades Canada, most Yank troops desert and move to Canada. With severely depleted military horde, USA reinstates draft. Most potential draftees move to Canada; Canadian militia now outnumbers American Army. USA can't drop nukes a few miles from its own border; besides, Exxon needs that tar sands oil. Canadian militia considers remodeling White House again. Harper declares the militia illegal; Canadian civil war breaks out. Mexico retakes Texas, the West Coast states (except for Orange County) secede and join Canada, Quebec secedes and becomes New France. It was a normal day.

I'd fund you on Kickstarter...

The sequel to Canadian Bacon. http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3602645273/

I wonder if they had a plan for occupying Canada. As the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven, the challenges of long-term occupation are of a different order of magnitude than merely defeating a nation's military. Additionally, a Canadian insurgency would likely be far more difficult to deal with than either of those countries. The population is higher than either Iraq or Afghanistan, geographically more spread out and better educated/trained/equipped on average. e.g. Canada is nowhere near the U.S. in terms of total gun ownership, but they do have a lot of rifles that see daily use (Bears, eh!). There's also no language barrier and massive avenues for intelligence leaks both ways thanks to the intertwined nature of the two nations, but such leaks do tend to benefit the smaller, more mobile side asymmetrically.

The U.S. economy would likely be crippled due to loss of trade with the U.S.'s largest trading partner as well as foreign sanctions. Large portions of the U.S. would be left without electrical power. The flow of fossil fuels from North of the border would soon stop and likely stay stopped (Pipelines are railroads are relatively easy for their own workers to disable). I honestly doubt any U.S. administration that tried to attack Canada would survive the domestic insurrection that would soon occur.

Related Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

Also, if you find that interesting you might like the exercise "Operation Skyshield" that had UK nuclear bombers successfully penetrating US air defenses in the 1960s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Skyshield

Edit:

Also, the book "What Ifs? of American History" has a scenario with the US going to war with the British Empire in 1896 - with the apt title of "The Whale Against the Wolf".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Ifs%3F_of_American_History

The US had plans to invade Canada, the Canadian Gov't planned to try to hold out until the British rescued us, and the British figured Canada wasn't worth the bother.

Ironically, a year after this document was made, this was built: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Arch

May these gates never be closed

The US has invasion plans for every conceivable scenario, friend or foe.

As fascinating and as much as I like these topics, this is on Hacker News because....?

> As fascinating and as much as I like these topics...

From the guidelines: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Seems you answered your own question.

I mentioned this last time, but that doesn't seem to make it less interesting to people.

Heck, the US probably has plans for invading the US.

Again?

Presumably in the event that the opposition establishes a foothold in some part of the country.

I've been told that the State of Maine is the only actual State to have ever "Declared War" on another country. The term "war" is rhetorical, but I don't think any other state has declared hostilities on a foreign country. The Aroostook War was a confrontation in 1838/39. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroostook_War

[edit] There is also still territory whose sovereignty is disputed between the U.S. and Canada. Machias Seal Island is a small desolate rock off the Coast of Maine. Both countries claim it. Canada posts 2 Canadian Coast Guard folks on the island year round just to reaffirm their claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machias_Seal_Island

An invasion scenario came up far more recently, during the Quebec referendum:

1.Quebec separates from Canada. 2.Northing Quebec (Native) separates from south (French) 3.Protesters interrupt power lines through northern Quebec. 4.New York City goes dark. 5.US Paratroopers land in northern Quebec to restore NY power.

I read this as 5 US Paratroopers, though I think that'd be all it would take. They are the "French" Canadians ;)

jokes

That's a good point there. I don't think separation would be desirable if the natives aren't involved. Separation should guarantee them complete liberty and more support than what is given by the Canadian Government.

The download weighs in at 139 MB. Does anyone have a TL; DR?

tl;dr a just-in-case plan by the US Armed Forces to invade Canada as part of a war against Great Britain, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

Reminds me of the Swiss contingency plan in case poor French start invading, and it was published last year!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24329818

The West Wing - Invasion of Canada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g81eGiLXA1M

Since most Canadians live within 30 KMs range of the US-Cdn border, I would say it should take no longer than a day, eh?

Depends on if we can get our hands on all that lovely syrup.

Otherwise we really don't have much reason to invade.

bacon, my friend, bacon

That's ham.

I doubt it. The Maple Syrup Mafia has control over that.

American were crazy since 1920!, well, since forever

Mainly since Woodrow Wilson, who gave us involvement in WWI, The Federal Reserve, The Income Tax, The Federal Trade Commission, The Clayton Act, The 17th Amendment direct election of U.S. Senators, The Espionage/Sedition Act.

Ever since Wilson, we've been imperial.

Wilson gets criticized a lot, and I get that.

But wouldn't you have to say that the imperialism at the lastest started during McKinley's administration and continued into Roosevelt's (consider for example Roosevelt's actions towards Colombia to get the Panama canal).

But let's be fair, Wilson held out for a long, long time as far as WWI was concerned. Teddy would have got into the war 2 years earlier.

I am interested in how the direct election of U.S. senators ties to imperialism?

I am interested in how everything but the Espionage/Sedition Act makes us "imperial". The FTC, really?

We've been explicitly imperial since at least Monroe, but really the US has been in the empire business since it was still a colony.

I've often wondered if history textbooks 500 years from now won't view the US as just a later off-shoot of the British empire, much as modern history books treat the Byzantine empire as a continuation of the Roman empire.

The Byzantines considered themselves a continuation of the Roman Empire. That's why they were none too pleased when the Pope started crowning new Emperors in the West (first Charlemagne and later the Holy Roman Emperors).

It's funny you mention that because in some respects the Ottomans, following the fall of Constantinople, also took up the mantle of "new new Roman empire". So, granted, after 200 or so years since separation most American's don't necessarily identify with the British empire, but who's to say what attitudes will be in another 200 years?

(Also, I feel it's worth pointing out that if you asked most American's: "whose language is 'English'?", they would assert without a hint of irony that English belongs to America.)

Manifest destiny is a bit older than that.

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