Hacker News Reader

Comment by mudil | Hacker News Reader

These things are completely different. Races are not different species. All people are the same: race does not matter.

Sexual roles (the evolution of sexuality) is a completely different game. Ever thought why peacock has a tail but not peahen?

View on HN

"All people are the same: race does not matter."

In the U.S. whites score about one standard deviation above blacks on IQ tests such as WISC and Stanford-Binet, and in adoption studies that try to control for environment, this difference does not go away. Race is more than skin deep.

Citation needed

I'm reluctant to get involved in the politically incorrect side of this argument, but FWIW, that stat comes from "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns", which was a paper published in the mid-90s by the American Psychological Association (in response to the controversial book "The Bell Curve").

From the paper:

"The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential."

There's a lot of delicious scientifically-backed crimethink at Jayman's: http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/

I've seen studies demonstrating the reverse: controlled for poverty, school, and whether a student has one or two parents, white and black American schoolchildren tested the same. (Standard deviation of 0.06: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066)

EDIT: Sorry, wrong paper. Looking for the right one.

Even the fact that you point out "in the US" should be an indicator of the racism. I've never heard any other modern countries seriously complain about the allegedly inferior intellects of their black populace. Are American blacks different?...

Racial differences in IQ are surprisingly robust between and within countries: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png

These differences are mirrored by PISA and IQ scores between nations, SAT scores within nations, and etc. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, but most people don't want to.

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ

It's hard to imagine that racism accounts for the entire explanation of such a global, consistent, and persistent phenomenon.

Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one:

For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the correlation of IQ and GDP is 0.62.

It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, you can just make it up!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#Na...

More importantly it didn't even support the argument presented.

I guess what they intended was "African Americans have low IQ and so do Africans, ergo IQ is race-related". Yet African Americans have higher IQ than Africans, because they live in a more prosperous region, with less disease, more opportunities etc. so what does that tell us about IQ and race, and racial differences within countries? That maybe it's not all about race (and generally be on the lookout for stats that don't correct for factors like age/wealth/education/sex etc. I regularly see the "headline" figure being given uncorrected.)

A pretty big racial cognitive gap remains after adjusting for income, at least in America. Poor whites do better on cognitive tests than wealthy African Americans: http://glpiggy.net/2013/03/19/a-sociologist-looks-at-race-di...

African Americans are closer to European IQ levels than Africans, probably for several environmental and genetic reasons (better nutrition and schooling, ~25% European ancestry, etc)

That's true, that a gap remains when you adjust for a some obvious confounding factors, which makes it all the stranger that people are so determined to use the non-adjusted figure, it's as if the bigger number somehow resonates more with what they want to believe, than the more scientifically valid one. Maybe they're scared a that a smaller gap could be bridged by simply examining a few more variables.

South Korea and Japan I can understand, but .... Italy?

I've been in any number of modern countries speculating about the inferior intellects of a minority.

I don't think anyone is arguing that males and females are identical. The problem is when the current social state of things (e.g. few women in CS) is used to make unwarranted extrapolations about what those differences are without strong biological supporting evidence. It's a weak argument since social effects have not been excluded at all from your model.

There could be great variance in intelligence, physical strength and aggressiveness between different races of the same species. For example Chihuahua, Doberman and Gray Wolf are races of the same species (Canis Lupus).

Of course humans were not a subject to strictly controlled selective breading like dogs, which means we have much fewer and less diverse races. Still, this is not something that should be completely ignored when trying to understand human behavior, both social and genetic traits matter.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com