Indian School Girl Creates Washing Machine That Runs Without Electricity | Hacker News Reader

Indian School Girl Creates Washing Machine That Runs Without Electricity

trak.in

294 pointsmiaowmix120 comments

I have conflicted feelings about this. On the one hand it's nice to see the creativity and spirit, on the other hand it's sad to have to invent solutions for problems we should have stopped having a century ago, where the solution does not free up time for other things. http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing_...

TBH, this problem /was/ solved a century ago, if not longer, how do you think your grandparents (or their parents) did their laundry? First you had bashing clothes against rocks, then you got washboards, then you got hand-cranked washing machines. Not as clever as leg-powered washing machines, though, but then I'm sure we would be using those by now if it wasn't for electricity.

Agreed; this came to mind as well.

Before electricity was commonplace, people still washed their clothes...even if they didn't have easy access to a stream or river.

This may be a clever refinement of a human-powered washing machine, but it is far from novel.

Agree. Also, it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity". By the same logic, Fred Flintstone (or someone in his era) should be credited for designing a car that "ran without electricity".

At this stage of mankind's industrialization, it's disingenuous to look at a human powered machine as an improvement over an electricity powered one.

Not every location in this world has pervasive electricity. For example, many towns in the Amazon have to ship in propane to run generators that run just for a couple hours of power each day. Locations that do have constant power also have a serious infrastructure to create that power, which burns non-renewable resources in quantities that would surprise most people.

Electricity is awesome, but until we truly have renewable power in all areas of the world, devices like this are good things.

It's a huge improvement over holding the stuff full of skin-attacking chemicals in the hands for extended periods of time. Women in India and not only there have to do that daily.

Because gloves are too expensive?

Never mind that though. Pedalling is a lot easier than washing clothes by hand. It's better for your back too.

Yes, gloves are too expensive and also don't work for people who wash today by hands.

I see it's hard to imagine that to you, so try with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_Poverty_Line_(India)

400 INR monthly per head is less than 7 USD per head per month to survive.

Thank you.

Gloves don't work. The chemicals impregnate the gloves and then the situation's even worse, since they're being pressed against your skin for long periods of time.

What? Latex gloves are water proof. Where can I learn more about the chemicals impregnating the gloves?

Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves.

Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove.

Also, dish soap and other detergents are surfactants, which reduce the surface tension of water. That makes it easier for it to get into tight spaces, like the space between the glove's edge and your hand.

Finally, latex is soluble in many kinds of oil/petroleum-containing product (many waxes, some heavy-duty cleaners, etc.), so if you're wearing latex gloves, you'll literally be dissolving latex onto your skin and degrading the gloves. Gross.

If that's what a three-second test will do, imagine how it'd feel to wash clothes for thirty minutes. Not pleasant.

>>Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves. Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove.

No, it's because your hands generate sweat, which cannot evaporate due to being completely sealed in by the latex.

Here's a test for you: fill a latex glove with water and see if it is leaking any. You will see that it is completely waterproof.

You'll get sweat too, but there'll be soap from the sink in there. Unless you have some very unique genes, that didn't come from your hands!

The soap got in through the edge of the glove, not through the glove. Your test won't demonstrate anything other than that latex can hold water, which is not what I was trying to show.

I wasn't kidding when I said to try it. :)

So a little soap/chemical enters through the edge. A 99% reduction in exposure still beats 0% reduction in exposure.

Perhaps jxf should have written "dunk your hands up to the elbows". If you are washing clothes with gloves on, you can expect at least some water to make its way in through the top.

No thats the sweat from your skin :-)

Trust me years ago I worked on on project that was simulating a nuke reactor (the CFR breeder) and had to spend an afternoon wrapping a dummy fuel pin with insulation in full bunny suit, respirator and latex gloves on a very hot day when I took the gloves off there must have been 50 cc's of fluid in the gloves finger tips.

Perhaps there is a market for latex gloves that are snug and seal better at the wrist (similar to the male condom).

or perhaps dish gloves (which already exist) are long so they do not become submerged in the water.

I don't think you've ever washed anything by hand.

Safety equipment is valuable. Thus, it is stolen or sold to get money to buy food.

It's not so much that they're valuable, it's that it's too easy for assholes to insist that the poor girls doing the washing don't need / deserve them.

Well, yes, that would be a problem.

There is a problem with risk assessment in general.

BBC had a few useful programmes. One was about young peoe visiting developing nations to see how luxuries are produced. They visited the Accra toxic electronic equipment dump. People take wiring and burn the insulation off to get the copper. These cable bonfires release huge clouds of toxic smoke. Now one has any kind of mask. The programme showed a boy smashing capacitors off a PCB with a rock to sell them. I think, but do not know, that if je'd had a pair of snips (for the compnent leads) and some way to get the copper / gold off the PCB that he'd have had a more valuable resource to sell. It was a profoundly depressing, distressing, view.

There was another programme called Welcome To India. This showed poor people reclaiming gold. They visited the jewelery district and swept the roads. They used acids and mercury and heat to turn this dust and grit into tiny gold grains. Part of the process was taking aciding grit in the palm of their hand and stirring it with their fingers. Again, no glasses or masks or gloves.

Indian bloggers - are there any good blogs showing everyday life in India? Not just the poverty, but the life of a broad cross section of the population?

Washing machines are valuable. This, they are stolen or sold to get money to buy food.

That's an inference you see to be making, because I see no evidence in the story that this machine is being targeted at households too poor to have (or afford) electricity in their homes.

Just for reference, the cheapest semi-automatic washing machine I could find online is Rs.3990 or ~$65 [0] (there are cheaper models available offline, usually).

[0] http://compareindia.in.com/specification/washing-machines/ak...

Its not about affording electricity. Its availability of electricity. Even when you can afford a washing machine, electricity shortage makes it impossible to run the machine. Sometimes the power goes right in the middle of a wash cycle and you have to wait couple of hours before the power is restored. And in summer, power cuts are more prevalent.

Written like someone who has no experience of how common power outages are in many parts of India, not to mention the cost / scarcity of what "rich westerners" recognise as a Washing Machine.

  -- sent from a hut on the beach in Goa.

That's not fair at all! Look at our affluent, american lifestyle. We use massive amounts of electricity, water and chemicals to wash clothes, then get in our petroleum powered machines and drive to a place called a "gym" where we pedal a bike that goes nowhere. And we pay for the privilege!

Perhaps the solution is NOT to make trivial tasks ever more trivially easy? Perhaps humans need a little resistance training in their daily lives? There is a point where things are too easy and the average american's health is proof of this. This product can improve the lives, not just of those without electricity, but also those with electricity.

May I infer that you, an informed, rational, and affluent person, live in a rural Indian village by choice, as it is better for your health?

You have made some sort of logical fallacy... I'm not sure which but you are stretching my words beyond the breaking point by framing the situation in a black-or-white, all-or-nothing way.

There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat. That's not saying that it's healthier to live there or that I would ever voluntarily move there. Obviously, I have more choices, better health and more wealth living in the states. But living in front of a macbook also has downsides- my arteries are clogging as we speak. So I have to offset all my inactivity on my bike or at the gym.

With this washing machine, I can get everything I want and need- clean clothes, lower electricity bills and exercise. And so too can a woman in India get what SHE needs- clean clothes, free time and less toil. But stating the obvious- that Americans needs more exercise and to use less energy- is not even close to advocating for living in a rural Indian village.

>There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat.

Speak for yourself. My natural habitat has great public transit, so I get my exercise built into my commute.

> it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity"

I don't think it's misleading at all.

If electricity and electric cars were available and commonplace in Fred Flintstone's era, and he designed a car that used no electricity, then he could and should be credited for designing a car that "ran without electricity".

Now, if someone said this machine ran without energy, that would me not only misleading, but a lie.

> At this stage of mankind's industrialization, it's disingenuous to look at a human powered machine as an improvement over an electricity powered one.

That's a legitimate point, and one that is worth discussing about.

Yes my granny had a manual washing machine and a mangle too.

Reminds me of the quite `rinced` Louis CK bit about the mainstream ignorance and disregard toward technology.

ps: The assistant made me laugh. Very ironic.

This is probably still faster than washing by hand in a basin. If it is, it'll still free up time.

Not only faster but generally more effective and, from what I can tell, more efficient in terms of water use. This looks like it mimics the cleaning cycle of high-efficiency washing machines which dip clothes through a small water/detergent solution rather than fill a large tank as top-load washers do.

Arguably, having the side effect of providing exercise counts as freeing up time for other things.

Yes, and while cycling, you can actually do some other things. Reading, watching TV, etc. Although, looking at first world countries, and how society is working, having solutions which force exercise on us would probably be extremely beneficial.

Wouldn't you need to find a TV that doesn't run on electricity first?

Small electronics draw relatively little power. You can run a small LCD/LED TV (or radio) off solar PV and a small (regulating) battery. Large power (and heat) loads require far more (and more reliable) energy. Tapping into human energy is an option, though net net it's still fairly inefficient.

ha! good point.

Although I was kind of thinking that even without the electricity, it's a benefit.

Or alternatively, you could get 20 of these, all facing each other and be sociable. Or if you have some electricity in a town, get all of them in a hall, and play movies. :-)

Well, electricity is made out of rotating things if you strap a magnet to them somewhere ;).

If you're powering a washing machine and a TV by pedaling, I'm not sure you'll last a full cycle ;)

smartphone/tablet - and solar powered battery charging. No need for a big screen.

You could be coding in Java...

Then I wouldn't get the laundry done.

Exercise is only lacking if most of your daily chores and transport are handled by machines, which is not the case here.

Free up time to go to gym and burn the calories we got from junk foods that we eat to compensate and cope with our terrible modern life problems?

Well, it frees the user up from having to go to the gym later to do some cardio exercises.. Half-joking.

Though this must be appreciated, but this isn't new. Even in India. This thing has be done many times and failed to gather much support, basically at some point you begin get frustrated to be putting so much mechanical effort while an automated solution exists and can't be put to use because of power shortage. Most people don't have hours to be cycling to wash clothes, because if they wanted to- They might as well wash them manually with their hands(Note, this is super common in India).

Its a bit like programmers doing manual work, what could be automated. And it looks cheap and is frustrating.

Either way, India is in desperate need for energy related hacks. Solar energy offers a lot of hope. Even things like LED lights, better battery technology, bicycle pedal assists et al can do great help in India markets.

For an example of real original thinking from India see this

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-01-30/news...

I tried posting it here but didnt get too many upvotes.

Great Idea, but the initial capital expenditure will be very high and at some time prohibitive enough.

I think the government can help in waiving off taxes for sale of LED lights(This can cause great savings in power consumption), pedal assist bicycles and for things alike.

Either way I don't think big changes will happen until we see great deal of innovation in the energy sector.

Everything old is new again: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Washing_m...

One could argue that it was a pretty severe oversight in the original design that you had to use your arms instead of your legs to turn that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v1rSA4FqlM

Not quite. Back in those days it was considered unladylike to use your legs to operate a machine. First sewing machines used hand operated wheel to run, which were very hard to use. It was only later people started to use the foot operated ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jonescs.jpg

Legs in themselves were considered risqué. These sewing machines would also have been covered with large skirts, much like the Victorian dinner table.

Well said, I agree completely!

Nice. This will also work well in places that has frequent power cuts.

It is kinda funny when I went back to my home-town. Most household have Washing Machines lying around, unused because they don't have the power required to complete a wash cycle.

Our washing machine died. I thought it odd, grabbed a nearby circular saw, tried it, and it went. So it was the washing machine, not the power point. So we bought a new washing machine. As the old one left in the truck, we ran a wash. As soon as it reached the spin cycle it stopped. The power point couldn't take the higher draw, the departed washing machine was fine. Annoying.

What kind of overcurrent protection did the circuit have? A fuse would've blown and needed replacing before the power point could be used again; a circuit breaker would've tripped and had to be reset. Are polyfuses used in that role? Or do they make self-resetting circuit breakers for house current?

We had the fusebox replaced soon after this, as it was 1950s vintage. I got a minor shock when using a power tool and went inside to see why the fuse hadn't blown. Someone had replaced the fuse wire with paper clips. However this also doesn't explain what the fault was and I'm pretty sure the electrician replaced the powerpoint in the end. The new fuse box had residual current devices, which had to be reset manually if tripped.

Forget home town, there are frequent power cuts in Bangalore itself. Most of the time 12-16 hours during weekends. I used to get frustrated, as weekends used to be my time when I wash clothes.

Now I have a clever work around, I just put everything in the washing machine in the night at dinner. Then I just wake for a moment at around 3 AM and turn on the washing machine and geyser, by the time I'm awake in the morning the washing machine is done with washing and water is ready hot. I put the clothes for drying and take a bath. By then the power is gone. But then after the major chores are done. Who cares?

Have people tried using capacitors or batteries to accumulate electricity when the power lines are working? Is it too expensive/dangerous to help cover the outages?

On an energy storage density basis, liquid fuels and a generator beat batteries by a long shot.

So if you want a dependable electrical system, you'll have a generator. You might still include batteries and some form of power regulation to get you through spikes and/or brownouts, but that's just a few miliseconds to minutes, not hours. A generator and large diesel tank can run you for days.

> geyser

Is that a local term for hot water heater?

Where are you from? I didn't even know that was a problem that people could have.

Very common in India. Only sure things that go inside the washing machine are dirty clothes and detergent. No guarantees about water and power.

This is the main reason I have gone for top loading machine(Samsung fully automatic?? top loading model), so I can catch water in a bucket and pour and keep it running :p.

My washing machine is intelligent enough to handle the power cuts by itself though. I am from Bangalore by the way and staying in an apartment with diesel generator, but it is not in auto stand by. It has to be manually switched on and the power is supplied only to lower wattage power outlets.

It is more irritating, when adsl modem/wifi router goes off and comes up again with diesel backup. All devices lose IP address and starts DHCP again. Soon going to buy UPS for modem/wifi router.

There are much more things, like HP printers jamming, external HDD going down, getting stuck inside elevator, induction cook tops stop working etc.,

Never faced problems with wifi, basically because I have a UPS backup. I have a time based work around for washing clothes and water heater though, start the process of washing machine at around 3-5 AM in the morning and turn on the water heater. By the time the power is gone, your major chores are done.

Other workaround include, switching to CFL instead of tube lights(Save power and net monthly bill, which can be adjusted for UPS expenses), using LPG instead of induction cooker etc.

LED lights are going to be a big thing in India. Plus I can't wait intelligent Solar energy hacks at least for lighting needs. We need innovation there.

> intelligent Solar energy hacks at least for lighting needs

At least during the daytime, it's hard to beat intelligent (but low-tech) ways to direct the sunlight to where you want light -- light tubes, for example -- rather than losing most of the energy converting to electricity then back to light, however you do it.

UPS will last 3 - 4 hours at best ?

You have to use heavy power rationing if you are on UPS. Devices on heating line are automatically out- Water heaters, refrigerator, microwave ovens etc. The lights run on CFL's whose power consumption is really low. I very rarely use TV during power cuts, unless I'm sure the power is sure to return in 2-3 hours.

The rest wifi modem, laptop etc are all lower power consumption devices.

Did you know there are places where people don't have regular supply of water or food as well!?

I know, the world is an crazy place.

Edit: For less snark see[0] - Large parts of India, middle east and Asia experience this.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout

I guess he assumed that there was power, or no power, but there was no state of "not enough power", just like me.

he said "don't have the power required to complete a wash cycle", meaning the power the stay continuously long enough to finish washing.

I understood it as during the washing cycle power demands fluctuate, peak, and there is not enough power for that. Like memory, your process starts, has a memory peak after 15min and you get an out of memory error. Does not run through.

You're both possibly right -- as in I've seen both those things happen several times a week, for months.

Thanks for the information.

It's not so much that this exists: it's that she built something. Kudos to that.

Of course this idea isn't new. I use one of these when camping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYq34Bxkp5w&t=3m55s

you bring that massive thing with you when camping?! ... I think we have different definitions of "camping".

You've never been camping with 30 members of your family before huh.

really shouldn't be called camping so much as pioneering, or oregon trailing ;)

This is great. Years ago I used to help out at Honey Bee Network http://www.sristi.org/hbnew/ and saw hundreds and hundreds of innovative solutions by people from all over India. If you can navigate the rather clunky interface at the website, there's a lot of great solutions for problems that millions of people in low-income population face.

Here are some: Motorcycle cultivator http://www.sristi.org/hbnew/hb_inno_detail.php?ID=DTP0010000...

Bamboo bicycle http://www.sristi.org/hbnew/hb_inno_detail.php?ID=KNW0020000...

Nice, my wife got a HandyWash [1] for camping and it works pretty well. With the right sort of assists manual washing is pretty straight forward.

[1] http://www.hometone.com/pressure-handwasher-a-handy-washing-...

When camping, we used to use a 5 gal. plastic bucket with a hole cut in the lid and a plunger. It actually worked really well if you have 20 minutes to sit around manually washing clothes.

Neat. How long does it take to do a wash with that?

Since we generally have nylon clothes while camping not long at all. I don't think I've tried to wash denim in it. Basically it takes longer to dry generally than it does to wash it. (and nylon dries pretty quickly)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw

The first thing this made me think of was the countless old/broken washing machines ending up on the dump, with perfectly intact, shiny stainless steel drums that could've been used in this.

Hey, loooky here, an electricity-free, zero-emission, exercise, "green" boat made from bicycle!

http://cubeme.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/diy_amphib...

Instead of running washing machines on electricity and then running on electric powered machines in gym, how about manually cycling a washing machine like this. You hit 2 birds with one stone.

Granted it's not practical in every household, but it's not a bad alternative for some.

We need generic magnetic resistance (instead of weighted) machines charging batteries.

I've wondered, but too lazy to calculate that how much electricity could be generated by machines in gym. Probably not a lot, but the whole idea of a green gym could encourage people to work out more.

Edit : Google search shows some in practice : http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2032281...

It works for greenwashing as a marketing technique as you suspect, but the energy cost of lighting alone exceeds the energy you can produce by leg power, to say nothing of HVAC for the facility and water heater for the showers.

This is why we burn coal and uranium instead of forced prison labor to generate electricity on exercise bikes. I'm glad of that.

Please note that this is something Remya created around 2003; more than 10 years ago. I am not sure how it was posted in 2013.

My daughter has a small pedal powered washing machine that she uses in her house in Leicester (UK). I liked the article and the girl's mechanical ingenuity but the idea itself is very old!

Next : use a set of rocking chairs connected to a flywheel distributing kinetic energy to whatever appliance needs it, bring your family and enjoy.

The GiraDora manually powered washing machine was announced a couple of years ago - I don't know what happened to it, e.g. did it never get funding?

http://inhabitat.com/human-powered-giradora-washer-needs-no-...

Here's another example of a bicycle powered washing machine - in this case, using the tub and impeller from one commercial machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYmK9Rsh4Pg

I think it can be improved so that you don't have to put the whole machine between your legs by using more of the cycle (chained pedal rotation). Good to see people trying to make lives better for themselves and their community.

Looks awkward as hell, why not just connect a bike connected by bike chain to the washer so your legs aren't all spread wide trying to pedal. http://goo.gl/K6W6gS

There you go, the same girl. http://azstarnet.com/news/world/perpetual-paintbrush-bike-li...

If it was an open source programming project, this would be my first pull request! But it does mean you have to keep a bike connected to it, which is extra equipment which costs more and takes more space.

Good point.

Cool but lots of similar stuff around

https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+washing+machine&sour...

You see odd but surprisingly practical inventions like these in China as well - as they say, "necessity is the mother of invention".

Necessity is the mother of all inventions! I'm from India and I know how much impact this might have on the rural community here.

Anybody else notice that the water from the washing machine is being discharged, untreated, into the stream near by?

I expect that where only 14% of the rural population of India has access to a latrine (http://water.org/country/india/), washing machine effluent is not a significant concern.

And how do you think it was without the machine? Often it is doing the cleaning in the stream, beating the cloths on rocks.

These things really work (I used one in an apartment).

http://breathingwasher.com/

And, they cost a lost less than that bicycle contraption. Takes about 5 minutes to wash a few pairs of pants and some shirts. Gets them amazingly clean.

We had a project in our mechanical class to create 'stuff' using lathe machine and what not. All 35 in our class were divided into groups of 3 and were supposed to come up with 'novel' ideas.

5 groups (including mine) came up with washing machine :)

I'm unsure as to why it's important to state that she is Indian in the title?

Nationality is a pretty common way, if not the most common way to describe someone. What's wrong with it's inclusion?

he's likely mad that the new CEO of Microsoft is Indian

no more tech support jokes

Couple of years before i saw a school kid with a grinder that works by pedalling in Kerala state level science exhibition. It was very similar to this. These sort of machines are common among these competitions.

Not sure about invented. I guess it could be invented on a local scale, but I saw something similar in South Africa in the early 90's.

ok now. a satirical comment. :)

very good. now take this and create a company that improves your health while washing your clothes. Affluent people will buy. In my earlier days, we used to use something called as "hands" to wash clothes.

Does she plan on inventing one for ironing?

Yeah - you throw an iron and your clothes into a drum which you can spin by pedalling.

The idea is only a prototype, however, and might need some fine-tuning.

didnt they have this on gilligan's island like 50 years ago?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com