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Comment by batiudrami | Hacker News Reader

I can understand 'Saga' because their grand plan is to have 25 x-saga games (like Zynga did with -ville). If they do that and other people start making similar facebook games called x-saga then that would be unfair to King. I don't know if they have any other recourse in that instance, but they should be able to protect their brand.

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Most games tell a story of some kind, and sagas are a type of story. The idea that one company gets a lock on that word is ludicrous. "A first-person fantasy-based RPG called 'Dragon Saga'? Sorry, you can't have it because a tile-matching game has trademarked the word 'saga'".

It's a bit like being able to trademark the term 'movie' - should the makers of 'Scary Movie' be able to stop other films from having 'movie' in the title?

I watched my son playing Candy Crush for a few minutes and I don't see even a hint of a saga in that game. Can you get a patent on the process of misusing English words to back up your trademark?

The worst part is one of the main definitions of saga is "long story of heroic achievement, esp. a medieval prose narrative in Old Norse or Old Icelandic." Banner Saga is pretty much the perfect fit.

It's different from Zynga's "-ville", because Zynga creates new words that have never (or very rarely) been used. It's different from Apple's i-Things as well for the same reason. Both of those companies made prudent decisions about their brand trademarks by not treading on anyone else.

The law should not allow companies to own common English words in perpetuity. If you want to make your brand a common English word, you should accept the fact that other people get to use it.

I doubt King will win any lawsuits against others who use the words.

> Both of those companies made prudent decisions about their brand trademarks by not treading on anyone else.

Actually Apple ran into some trouble with, say, there already being software called IOS before any of the iThings existed. They've been to court over it a few times.

They also license the name "iPhone" from Cisco. They reference it in the first few lines of the legal section in the settings panel.

There's a different takeaway here. There are lots of other companies that are using the i- prefix for their products and yet Apple continues to thrive.

  then that would be unfair to King

Really? So, because a company wants to use the word "saga" in a line of products, they now own the word "saga"? Really?! Man, I totally should have grabbed the word "trilogy" last year before I wrote my last three apps.

But 'Saga' is an old, generic word that can apply to any epic story, so giving them the trademark for x-saga wouldn't be right...

Not only is it generic, but it is a word that has a long history of being used in the name of games well before "King" existed as a company:

http://www.mobygames.com/search/quick?q=saga&x=0&y=0

If Nintendo were to release a Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga sequel, would King be so "gracious" as to allow them use of the Saga term?

This whole situation highlights how ludicrous IP law has gotten in the past decade.

I can understand 'Saga' because their grand plan is to have 25 x-saga games (like Zynga did with -ville)

I think that people can see that's their grand plan, but it's a bad plan that deserves neither respect nor trademark protection.

They chose "Saga" knowing that it had a long history of use in a great many games that are very well known to gamers, so that's something they should have to live with. Stealing (i.e. actually depriving others of) the use of parts of language is not inherently reasonable to me.

Also, what ever happened to trademarks? I thought they were defined as adjectives and 'Saga' is clearly a noun in every use I've seen....

> Also, what ever happened to trademarks? I thought they were defined as adjectives

Sorry? Apple is an adjective?

> Sorry? Apple is an adjective?

For purposes of a trademark, actually, yes. From Apple's own site [1], "Trademarks are adjectives, and should not be made into verbs or made plural or possessive." In addition, Apple specifies a list of suggested generic terms for each trademark. Under Guidelines for Using Apple Trademarks and Copyrights, some concrete examples are given [2]: "Correct: I bought two Macintosh computers." but "Not Correct: I bought two Macintoshes."

[1] https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/...

[2] https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/guidelines...

This is incorrect in multiple ways.

- Apple says this because it doesn't want its trademarks to become common words ineligible for trademark protection (like what happened to xerox and kleenex). But it can't stop people from referring to things however they please; this is nothing more than a statement of how Apple wishes the world would work.

- If I say "I bought two Apple computers", Apple is still a noun, not an adjective.

> But it can't stop people from referring to things however they please

Even if they send C&D notes over improper usage?

Yes, if you post "I bought two Macintoshes today" to your blog or write it in a commercial article or anything of the kind, Apple has no authority to prevent that (and a trademark likewise does not apply to such behavior). Their only authority is to stop you from using their mark on your unaffiliated products.

A trademark is any distinguishing mark that indicates a product comes from you. The whole idea ("trade mark") is that it gives you a way to let people know which products are yours and which are competitors / unrelated / what have you, or, viewed from the mirror perspective, to let customers in the market know that they're buying what they think they're buying. That's why a central test of trademark violation is whether a customer would be likely to be confused between two marks.

They can be anything at all, such as entire phrases ("made from the best stuff on earth"), symbols (like the Apple apple), or particular colors, like the distinctive blue that Mauna Loa uses in their macadamia nut packaging (or the distinctive blue that Tiffany's uses in theirs!).

Yeah, but they're supposed to be used as an identifier and the fact that they don't (and haven't, to my knoweldge) ever used it as an adjective only underscores the fact that it does nothing whatsoever to distinguish them.

While I could see Candy X Saga being marginally distinctive, I associate 'Candy' and 'Saga' very strongly with completely different makers and I believe that I am by no means alone. For me, 'Candy Land' comes first for 'Candy' and 'Saga' goes to the whole 'SaGa' RPG series.

Also, I don't like word thieves trying to steal language out from under us. Here, the usage of 'thief' being justified by the fact that they are attempting to deprive us of the use of the word through dodgy legal practices.

Did you mean to reply to someone else?

No. I'm pointing out how, in spite of that, I believe this mark as applied for is not distinctive in the least and to me creates confusion with the marks of people who used them in commerce first.

A Trademark is only granted for a narrow field of use. So the headline assertion that King want to monopilize the word "Candy" is wide of the mark. As thaumasiotes states, the purpose is to protect consumers by rogue companies passing off their products in an attempt to deceive. All trademark applications are inspected before grant, that inspection being focussed on what is right for the average consumer, not for the company making the application, nor its competitors. In this case, imho, the trademark is legitimate. A quick scan of many of the objectioners shows that they are clearly aiming to deceive the average consumer.

Well, all of my examples are for games which is quite narrow. Are they not claiming 'games' as one of their categories?

The only problem with that is Saga is a common word in video game titles -ville not so much. If you swing by a game related site like http://www.gamefaqs.com/ and search for saga it will turn up more than a couple hundred games with saga in the title(including more than one game titled "Saga")

You're trolling right?

Then they patent Candy xxx saga. And begin pumping Candy Crush Saga, Candy Punch Saga, Candy Throw Saga, Candy Jump Saga. But both candy and saga should be in the game title.

"Saga" is far too broad, and they have no fair claim on that.

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