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Comment by pvnick | Hacker News Reader

Wow. That was incredible. The monotonous way in which the message was delivered, the complete lack of emotion and empathy, is appalling. Notice she did not apologize nor express any condolences beyond declaring the new unemployed state of those people to be "unfortunate." Without knowing much about the situation (I only listened to the recording), and leaving myself wide open to be corrected by someone with more insight into the background, I believe the word cowardice would be a pretty good description of what's going on here.

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I heard it as coldly professional. What, do you think they'd want a hug? I object to your use of "appalling".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo7zkd0kRS4

I'm appalled by your objection to the use of 'appalling'.

My what a contrarian you are.

No I'm not.

You say "coldly professional" like it's a good thing.

"Hey guys, so we have some greeeat news!(tm) and some not so great news (sad face)"

I'd rather have it straight quick like shots at the doctors office.

One can avoid outpourings of faux sympathy without treating their email account termination as a higher priority than saying thank you.

An example would be nice.

I agree, and if I were the one losing my job I'd prefer to hear the cold hard facts rather than artificial consolations from someone I've likely never met before.

The fact that those cold hard facts were disseminated via conference call, however, is not something that I find professional unless we are talking about the layoff of remote workers etc. - and even then I'd prefer a personal phone call.

After "you have no job," all they want to hear is dates, severance, and benefits. Anything else is just wasting everyone's time, because they are in their own heads and not listening.

This. What else was to be said? Really, what else could you say? "I'm sorry" Are you though? "You are a really talented worker" like that matters?

The relationship is a business one. Don't get confused. You are gone. You care about when, your shit on their computers, and money. Why spend a week laying people off when you can do it in two minutes? I have faith in the new management yet.

Still better than the time we were called into an all hands to find out our entire business unit had been sold, and the VP responsible for the sale joked in front of everybody "hey, I still have a job!"

Why do professional and being nice have to be mutually exclusive ? Why do we have to be "coldly professional" and not "morally/humanly professional" ? No one is complaining about layoffs here. What is being complained about is the way companies are treating their employees. I don't expect a handout or a hug and can find my own work if I get fired. But if you fire me the way these guys did, you will surely never be on my list of good people. May be that does not matter to some.

professional = I want to eat you

nice = I want to help you

professional + nice = I want to eat you and help you?

Now that doesn't work at all.

An analogy like that can be used in many ways. Here is my version:

professional = I have to eat you (not want)

nice = I am sorry (being nice is not only about helping)

professional + nice = I have to eat you and I am sorry.

I am sorry but I have to eat you.

I drank your milkshake, ha ha ha.

in the art world we call that a "lie"

I guess I wasn't clear.

I find straight, clear professionalism to be "nice", especially when dealing with shitty situations. Usually they're made more shitty by people getting personally emotional over what are, frankly, simply business decisions. A lot of that can be avoided by sticking to the facts and the script, making the inevitable a lot simpler for everybody. It's a matter of showing them adult respect and giving it to them straight.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive at all.

I can relate to "coldly professional". Up front, succinct - all good. But I can also relate to people who might have spent 10 or more years in the company. Loyal, motivated, emotionally invested. I think they wouldn't actually mind a hug in the end.

I agree with you but Patch was launched in December 2007 so I doubt they have these kind of employees.

I've often heard that apologies in various contexts can be used as evidence for litigation (eg, saying "oh sorry" after an auto accident) . Its a sad state of affairs, but people have to protect themselves from idiots and the courts they convince.

I hear this all the time but have never actually seen evidence for it. Can someone actually back this up?

Here's a law review article that discusses the issue: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/JLPP/upload/Helmre...

That said, I don't think there would be any issue with the woman in the recording saying something kind and generic, like "I feel for you, and I am sorry to have to do this."

That doesn't apply here, the context is very different.

Citation would be needed since I've never seen court insist that the ability to feel sorry (or just saying it to placate others) means guilt for an accused act.

Edit: Wouldn't that be something though? It would enable someone to argue innocence due to lying wholesale to someone's face saying you were sorry.

Sure you'd have to admit to being a liar in court but whatever. After winning slam dunk since this venue is apparently void of evidence, say sorry to the court for the problems (leave the judge wondering) and call it a day.

I think that's more in the sense of "oh sorry, I didn't see you!" Which is an admission of guilt.

Lawyers tell you not to apologize for fear of what else you might say while apologizing ("oh I'm so sorry, I was on my cell phone!"). It's not because courts or juries will interpret a mere "I'm sorry!" as an admission of guilt.

I was confused to whether this was real or in fact just someones audition tape for the George Clooney movie "Up In The Air".

I think it was more likely that she was simply reading from a prepared text/script.

"Best of luck!"

In today's highly litigious environment managers and employees don't get the luxury of sympathy many times.

Some people are more equal than others.

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