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Comment by k-mcgrady | Hacker News Reader

>> "Skilled software developer ( and yes you can be newly graduated ) will get us nothing"

Maybe that's the problem. I'm a freelancer but anytime I've thought about applying for a full-time software developer position I get put off by words like 'skilled', 'senior', and a list of technologies the person needs to know that no single developer in the world knows.

I've been coding for about 8 years, professionally for 5 and I consider myself a good programmer. But I don't know if I fit your definition of skilled or someone else's definition of senior as those are both too subjective. It puts me off applying mainly because I don't want to embarrass myself.

Edit: I think a good way to hire would be a short coding test a person can take online BEFORE applying. If they pass they know they are skilled enough to apply for the position, if not they don't get laughed out of the room.

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I had this problem when I started looking for jobs. For things like 'senior' and 'skilled' your best bet is to ignore those, just apply away. If you're resume is interesting you'll get a call. As long as you don't outright lie in the resume you shouldn't be embarrassed.

One thing that I learned later on in life was to not treat interviews as a one sided process. I'm there to make sure the company isn't awful, as much as you're there to make sure I'm not awful. If you go in with a mindset of evaluating the company to see if it's a fit with you I'm sure your fear of getting laughed out of the room will go away. Would you want to work with people like that anyway?

Of course this only applies to people who don't NEED a job.

We don't use the words "skilled", "Talented" or similar in our Python job posting, we simply ask that you know Python and preferably have used the language professional.

Our Javascript developer posting is a bit more demanding.

Previous job posting have been even more flexible, still we had to post the jobs twice to get qualified applicants.

Personally I don't believe in coding tests, and would never require it. Coding tests aren't all that common in Denmark, and I think they would scare perfectly good candidates away.

For good companies, laundry lists of skills are more like wish lists than requirements, especially with niche technologies. Use the job description to figure out what general kind of developer they're looking for (low level? database? UI? enterprise? team lead?) and apply if you're interested.

Regarding the idea in your edit, huge companies like Facebook and Google do have coding puzzles and competitions. People who excel in those surely gain confidence to apply to all sorts of job openings.

> For good companies, laundry lists of skills are more like wish lists than requirements, especially with niche technologies.

No, for good companies requirements will be actual requirements and as such be fairly short, the rest if the list appearing as "bonus", "preferred", or other flexible adjective.

I'm a former systems engineer who used to do requirements analysis, so I am a little sensitive to misuse of the word "requirement". Job postings like you describe drive me up the wall.

I can relate to that. But I'm willing to give companies a pass on a crappy job posting if the position itself is interesting.

Especially since it was very likely written, or at least mangled, by HR staff.

I haven't got nearly that much experience (in my opinion but just realized I have ~4 yrs...). Anyway if the job said X yrs/senior and was for a company that I really wanted (not just would) work for I would apply anyways.

Worst case they would reject me like other places but they might have had an opening for something lower and given me a chance.

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