Comment by GhotiFish | Hacker News Reader

Comment by GhotiFish | Hacker News Reader

Thoughts on the reasons stated:

   1) Attraction: Oh my god, it's a girl and she has a brain 
   and is interested in some of the same things I am 
   interested in. Maybe I can get a date!

I wouldn't put it past the majority of my gender.

   2) Misguided attempts to encourage women to post more: Oh 
   my god, it's a girl and we need more girls posting here. 
   Let's be nice and friendly and make her feel all welcome 
   and stuff so she will post more (thereby sucking all the 
   intellectual content out of their posts and killing any 
   reason you have to post there).

I wouldn't put it past HN.

   3) It's not really kid gloves, it's really walking on egg 
   shells: Oh my god, it's a girl and what if she breaks 
   down and cries because I argued with her (like my 
   girlfriend routinely does)

Now that I just can not see.

   3b) or what if I make a joke and she takes it all wrong 
   and everyone will think I am some horrible sexist pig!

People have lost their jobs to that one. Even I'm doing that. You would be crazy not to do that

   4) Shyness: A lot of the very intelligent men you find 
   hanging out in certain types of online forums (like 
   Hacker News) are very introverted and just awkward around 
   women and some of them have gotten a lot of rejection, so 
   they get nervous once they find out it's a girl.

iffy.

I suspect that far more of us would take:

5) I don't really care what your gender is (unless it is particularly germane to the topic of discussion) and I don't take it into account with regard to the content of my posts or responses.

People aren't taken aback at the office, when they deal with female engineers. Why should it be any different on the internet?

I understand women often have to deal with these awkward situations online. Granted. But let's remember that these are a minuscule fraction. It's like walking down the streets of New York and applying the reaction of one construction whistler cat-calling someone passing by and painting the other four million men in the city.

Of course, when you're on the receiving end of encounters with the one person in a massive group that always zooms in on you, it likely feels disproportionate.

I'm a pretty introspective person, I recognize that when the context changes, my behaviour changes. I want to be dispassionate and logical, but I am human.

I know many people arn't introspective, they don't think their behaviour changes at all. How many people have you met that have honestly told you: "Well placebo's don't really effect me." "Commercials don't have an effect on me." "I don't see race when I'm interviewing someone." "I treated that person as I would anyone else."

I hear it often, I also hear about study after study debunking such beliefs.

I believe you are right, most of HN would definitely take #5. I'm convinced most of HN would be mistaken. I can't help be racist, I can't help be sexist, I can't help be misguided and mislead. What I can do is recognize that I am effected by such proclivities, and compensate for them.

That is truly the best I can do. I am jealous of the person who can justifiably say they are #5.

It's for your job prospects that you avoid off color jokes? Not the comedic banality or actual disgust with sexism?

Well. Already I'm in dangerous territory now arn't I? but let me be candid:

>it's for your job prospects that you avoid off color jokes?

yes.

>Not the comedic banality

no.

>or actual disgust with sexism?

no.

I'm not a crusader, nor am I a paragon of morality. I would suggest to you, that such personally held traits are dangerous.

What do off color jokes have to do with sexism?

As an example, the dongle joke had nothing to do with sexism.

I am not trying to shame you but have you ever been around groups of women as they work or play? Off color jokes are typical of the species homo sapiens in 2014.

Well, the dongle joke was kind of a play on the word "dong" as euphemism for penis. So it had some vague allusion to sexual content, but you're absolutely right that it had nothing to do with sexism.

The real sexists are the people - including the distinguished Miss Richards who initially reported the joke - who presume that women are such delicate little flowers that they can't exist in an environment for adults, where people occasionally make jokes that are unsuitable for kindergarten kids.

(i.e. I quite agree with you!)

The "comedic banality" nonsense is tiring.

At least you also said what you really mean, that the sexism is problematic, but far too often I have seen people pretend that their issue with a offensive/bigoted/problematic joke is that it is not funny or cliche^. Let's be honest here, that is not actually what bothers people. We only hear those objections when there is something else wrong with the joke; nobody objects to non-offensive unfunny jokes. Groan perhaps, but not object.

^ Usually this manifests as something like "it's not even that it is offensive, the joke is just _lazy_"

There's no accounting for taste I suppose. I'll happily wade through a mountain of bad puns, but scatology and sexual dimorphism jokes are just wearisome.

> "scatology and sexual dimorphism jokes are just wearisome."

Right, but that is not because they are unimaginative or cliched (evidenced by you being able to wade through mountains of bad puns). It is because they are scatological or sexist.

"The "comedic banality" nonsense is tiring."

I like dick jokes as much as the next person, but they have to be funny. It's not as "shocking" as you think. It's cliche.

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