Verizon rescinds service to Samsung Chromebook 3G owners | Hacker News Reader

Verizon rescinds service to Samsung Chromebook 3G owners

groups.google.com

96 pointsnashashmi62 comments

Okay, but the guy says he bought it in Jan of 2013 and waited over a year to try and activate the offer.

Many of these offers are time bombs and sometimes for good reason. I'm not so sure I'm ready to pick up my pitchfork if this is the case.

Does anyone know... what would the best-case legal outcome be?

Do you take Verizon to small claims court, calculate the cash value of the service, and have the judge award you that? Can you sue them for false advertising? Can they face any kind of punitive damages? Do you form a class-action suit for everyone who bought a Chromebook and then didn't receive the service? At what point does/would Verizon choose to settle instead, and just provide the service after all?

I mean, this seems like exactly the kind of abuse that laws are designed to prevent, no?

Punitive damages or even small claims court are excessive, the only group which owes you something is Amazon, and it seems to be a straightforward case of failing to update the product description in a timely manner.

You might be able to compel them to provide you with the service as promised, you might not. You could probably get a return from Amazon plus a little extra something if you're nice about it.

Doubtful - he bought the device in January -2013-, went to activate it in January -2014-, only to be told they'd just discontinued the activation of new services.

You can only sue if you incur any loss due to lack of the free 3G service subjected to terms and conditions of the service. In this case, it's not worth it. Just return the chromebook back to Amazon.

You can probably sue Amazon for false advertising (again, subjected to Amazon's terms and conditions), but good luck proving that you have incurred any loss.

I don't believe you have any ground to sue Verizon.

Isn't the fact that he bought something that wasn't then delivered upon a "loss"? I.e., if I buy a year's worth of coffee from you for $5,000, and you only give me a month's worth, I've lost 11/12 of $5,000, right?

He bought a Chromebook. He got the Chromebook.

He did not buy 100MB of Verizon service, that was a "bonus/bundle/offer".

Just because it's a 'bonus/bundle/offer' doesn't mean he didn't buy it and is not obligated to receive it. In fact, an "offer" and an "acceptance" constitute the fundamentals of forming a legally binding contract in the US and many jurisdictions globally.

Unless you're a lawyer or very well-versed in the UCC, I'd avoid trying to make conclusive statements like that about this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_and_acceptance

Unless you're a lawyer or very well-versed in the UCC

Are we to understand that you are?

Absolutely not, nor was I drawing any definitive legal conclusions. I have run through bar flash cards on the UCC so I have some idea of what I don't know and that there can be a lot of complexity. For example, I vaguely recall an ad in a newspaper is not an offer, but an 'invitation to an offer.'

For example, I vaguely recall an ad in a newspaper is not an offer, but an 'invitation to an offer.'

I think you mean an 'invitation to treat'. A price sticker in a store can be an 'invitation to treat', i.e. you can look at a price sticker in a store and have a reasonable expectation that if you offer the teller the amount on the price tag, then that teller will accept the price.

It's more like an 'invitation to offer [verb]' than an 'invitation to an offer[noun]'.

A newspaper advertisement can be considered an offer, though. I don't know much about US law, but there is a famous case from the UK in which a lady claimed some money from a company on the basis of an advertised reward. They didn't pay and said it wasn't a serious claim. She fought in court and won: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlill_v_Carbolic_Smoke_Ball_C...

US law schools often phrase it exactly as invitation or solicitation to an offer. I definitely don't claim to have any authoritative knowledge on its applications in any jurisdiction.

Bullshit. Bull. Shit.

He bought a product that clearly promised something he is not getting. That is a loss. Amazon or Samsung should be liable. (Unless they can legitamitely deny him service because he waited a year to activate it).

I bought a really expensive coffee maker that comes with a 3-month supply of coffee beans from a 3rd party supplier. I chose this pricier coffee maker over a competitors because of that included supply made up the difference.

That supplier is refusing to send me the coffee beans, so I now have a loss.

You can sue for any reason whatsoever - does not mean you will win.

I am sure that Verizon was smart enough to put a limitation on the time that one had to activate the service. They have very many lawyers that would never allow a deal with no end date.

But again, you buy something over 1 year ago and only activate now? Did you really need this service?

Anyhow - you should not expect people to have a special offer that never expires, you must activate it to get the benefits.

But honestly, sounds like you are crying over nothing if it is really 1 year ago that you purchased this. You are being unreasonable.

Shouldn't said lawyers have made sure there was an expiration date on the original wording of the offer? If not on the packaging then somewhere in the fine print? In the absence of one you might successfully argue that it was open-ended.

You can only sue if you incur any loss due to lack of the free 3G service subjected to terms and conditions of the service.

IANAL and not from the US. In the UK, though, if the firm really had breached the terms by withdrawing the service promised, the customer could procure replacement service at reasonable/market cost, and then sue for that amount. So, if it cost you $20 per month to get Verizon service on the laptop, then could you sue for $240.

I have no view on this particular case as I'm not familiar with the contract. (It does seem reasonable that the customer should activate the service within some finite time, but the contract should define this. If it were 100 years since the person bought the laptop, I'm not sure people would still be surprised they couldn't activate the offer.

You can sue in small claims. They have to send/fly in a lawyer to respond. If you know what the corp lawyers charge, you can't possibly lose by filing, playing tough and negotiating at the last second. The judge has to believe your losses if you don't bluff.

A little premature to declare that the service has been rescinded based on that conversation, no?

I'd like to say I have just been informed by verizon that they have recinded my free 100mb service midway through the 'contract'. they gave me some jargon, that I did not retain because I was fuming. To my knowledge there was no 'expiration date' on the free 100mb THAT CAME WITH THE CHROMEBOOKS.

Bummer. I was going to get my nephew one of those because he really wants to learn programming and his family can't really afford Internet service. That amount of data was perfect for his needs.

I hope it's a mix-up or something, but I kind of doubt it is.

Worst case, as someone mentioned in that thread, you could get a FreedomPop wifi hotspot for $50-$60 that includes 500MB/month of free usage.

I bought a Samsung Chromebook a year ago so I can't remember what the exact price difference was between the wifi and the 3G model, but I feel like wifi model + hotspot would about be a wash vs the 3G model.

Wow, FreedomPop has a terrible site. No coverage map, overly SEO coverage list, everything tries to get you into the funnel rather than giving you helpful info.

Tell me about it! I couldn't find how much the service honestly costs because they don't you!

Pro 500MB Data Plan Trial - FREE Freedom Spot Overdrive Pro (Refurbed) - $59.99 1 GB of Bonus Data ($20 Value) - FREE

Shipping - $6.99

Due Today - $66.98

First Month Service - $0.00

All I want to know is how much are you going to charge me on a recurring monthly basis? This feels scammy to me... is this a dark pattern?

UPDATE: I finally found were the monthly prices were/are found (they used strike-through on the monthly price on the plan selection page and wrote in larger font behind it 100% FREE Trial)... They're hurting themselves by making it difficult to find.

They also hide on the FreedomPop Premier page that after the first month those "free" ($20 value mind you) offerings cost you $9.99 each month after the first one. They make the "Continue" button huge and the "I don't want free stuff" continue link much smaller.

I would definitely say there are Dark Patterns in use by FreedomPop. Caveat Emptor.

You can look at Karma http://yourkarma.com. They truly only charge for what you use.

Both Karma and FreedomPop run on the same Sprint network. However, that's a big issue since it only uses WiMax which never really saw much coverage penetration. In addition, Sprint is ditching that entire network for LTE.

Karma is apparently preparing to launch a new hotspot which runs on the new LTE network and I would suggest waiting for that device.

They are a Sprint MVNO, so you can just check Sprint's map.

A warning about FreedomPop: They'll charge you for the next package of bandwidth when you hit 400MB (supposedly so "You'll never run out of data", more likely so "We'll never run out of cash!") You can't set it to turn off when 500MB is hit.

Sounds like a dark pattern.

They also used to charge an "inactivity fee" if you used less than a certain minimum amount of data in a month, even if you were supposedly on the free plan. That wouldn't be so bad, except that the only mention of it is buried in the middle of a 5,000 word document that isn't even directly linked at any point in the signup process: https://www.freedompop.com/service_plan_terms.htm

It looks like they abandoned the inactivity fee in June 2013, but even so, it left me with a very negative impression of the company.

Seems there's a lot of hate for FreedomPop, but they aren't as bad as it seems. The way I see it is, you get what you pay for. I've been using them since 2012 and they've never overcharged me or ripped me off. Yes, they use to charge you for inactivity, but they no longer do that. If anything, I was always able to resolve any issues with a quick email. They've even given me credits on occasion. To date, I must have only paid them $20-$30, strictly relying on the free MBs from referrals. They aren't perfect, but for the price I'm paying (nothing), I'll happily deal with some issues on occasion.

Read the bottom of the linked thread.

Crouton (Ubuntu on Chrome) so he can work at home not connected and use of College/Library wifi when he needs to sync and to find information?

He could learn programming with just a C book and a used computer. Or if he really needs Internet you could pay for the monthly service and rustle him up a hand me down computer.

I'd go that route except I'm not around to help him through much of anything. I'm probably going to buy him the Prag's book on learning to program with Minecraft extensions or one of the entry level books geared towards kids.

But it'd still be helpful if he could e-mail me questions, look up things on Stack Overflow or something, and so on.

There are free wifi hotspots he can use with any portable gadget.

He can also make use of library resources for email, searching, etc. It's non-ideal, but it might have some perks; having to chew on a problem for a bit before you can get to a library may help him develop some serious problem solving chops.

So, like I said, pay for his Internet service.

The HP Chromebook 14 comes with 200MB/month from TMobile.

"4G for life. 200MB of free data each month, no annual contract, for the life of your device." according to their site.

I just got one from Costco. It's a bit more than the Samsung ($379 at Costco, a little cheaper at Walmart) but so far I'm liking it.

wow, I just bought a t-mobile hot spot so I could use my other devices. I am not willing to toss any more doe on chromebooks, but I am curious if the upsale plans in the chromebook are any different than their data offered at the store.

It looks like I have the following upgrade options:

On-Demand Day Pass 500MB $10 Week Pass 1GB $15 Month Pass 2.5GB $30

Monthly options 500MB $20 2.5GB $30 4.5GB $40 6.5GB $50 8.5GB $60 10.5 $70 12.5 $80

I have plenty of wifi at home and at work, and even on the bus into work (AC Transit in the Bay Area), so chances are I won't be using it all that often. I can tether to my phone as well (Verizon). That said, I can see it coming in handy now and then, and if I were out of town or something I wouldn't hesitate to try one of the on demand plans. Not sure if there is a contract on the monthly plans.

dough not doe

Note that OP says he purchased in January of 2013, not 2014.

From the article, the device was purchased in January 2013 (more than a year ago) and the Verizon plan activation was attempted in January 2014. This puts the device outside the return window of the reseller (Amazon). The only problem is the vendor website still showing the device as being sold with the plan.

Lets wait and see what the resolution is. As someone in that thread pointed out Verizon has people specifically for Chromebooks. I'm not a Verizon apologist, but it sounds like this needs to come to some sort of definitive resolution before we turn on the Internet Rage Machine(tm).

You didn't read far enough...

> I called them up again, reaching for technical support after dialing in my MDN number. I got a representative who this time said the 'promotion' was cancelled January 14th.

Just Verizon being a bad citizen again? Nexus 7 LTE not allowed on their network (Even though they were suppose to with the spectrum they leased from all of us who are US Citizens the spectrum we all own to the carriers through the US Government)

I don't give money to Apple and I don't give money to Verizon. I also blocked from my DNS CNET and HuffingtonPost. All Bad Citizens

(Even though they were suppose to with the spectrum they leased from all of us who are US Citizens the spectrum we all own to the carriers through the US Government)

An important point not to be missed. Repeatedly, these organizations make agreements in order to gain benefits, and then proceed to bald-facedly renege on their portion of the agreement.

And... no one holds them to account!

At this point, I think they should be investigated criminally and prosecuted for fraud. If and as it becomes apparently they entered these agreements with ill will and with the intention to renege, this is no longer a civil matter.

Perhaps an alternative is T-Mobiles 200MB/m free offer. It works great and is truly free.

If you have an account with a Simple Choice plan (their postpaid offering). You can also buy day passes if you need to use it beyond the 200MB. Also worth noting this is for "select devices" only, i.e. some tablets. They may not allow using said device as a hotspot.

Chromebook owner here. I haven't been able to convince the data on my machine to function on the free plan yet this month, but I'd chalked it up to the 3g modem being mostly iffy anyway. Looking forward to watching this.

Then in three years the Google data charges start. Sigh. I never saw how people think these non-computers are a good deal.

Most of these are $200-$400 in price range. These are full computers (just with limited storage). If Google starts charging in a few years, you can convert it over to a full desktop with [Crouton](http://www.howtogeek.com/162120/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-...).

I have the Samsung Chromebook WiFi and it works great!

My thinking is that if I ever needed 3G/4G, I could either a) root my phone and tether on the DL, b) buy one of those USB dongles that the carriers sell that enables it and get the right drivers for my rooted Chromebook.

Wow, 100 MB/month for a Chromebook - that's amazing! That's like 30 whole articles from Hacker News or Reddit or Feedly!

But seriously, it's pathetic, even if it's free.

Yea 100mb's are a pathetic come on, but I think I need to see the fine print since that is the ONLY reason I bought the chromeb, now I can only call it a crumb.

Some were talking about Amazon. The seller should not be liable. How can they just pull your promised data. A contract is a promise to pay or give a service. They broke a contract. Where is the fine print. I want to see it. I told them I would be calling back.

sounds like a telco being a telco....lots of fine print. the free lunch of data plans wasn't going to last forever.

+1, sounds like getting a credit card with '0% interest' and believing them

Looks like Amazon updated the product details page. It doesn't show the free two year wwan any more.

sounds like a class action. I'm in. The only reason I bought TWO chromebooks was for the 3g. I haven't even activated the other one. They owe me about 3gb and they also changed their rates, eliminating 3gb for $35. Now it is 2gb for $30

. ]

Reply on news.ycombinator.com