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Comment by angersock | Hacker News Reader

And because of how fucked-up the system is, when they come to pick you up, any number of minor things during that encounter ("Fuck you pig, where's the warrant?", running, etc.) can escalate into resisting arrest, disturbing the peace, or assaulting an officer, and then magically you're in the system "for real" and screwed.

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Probably shouldn't be telling cops to fuck off then?

1st amendment says otherwise.

You are free to talk shit to anyone you want in a bar; you are also free to get your ass kicked.

Antagonizing a cop just to be a dick will probably result in those minor charges he would have ignored if you were nice, getting written up with a smile on his face. That's 100% your fault in that case.

The guy in the bar isn't bound by law and ethics to be professional and respect the constitution. The cop is.

Writing you a ticket that he is legally entitled to do because you are being a dick is totally professional and in line with the constitution.

What ticket do you suppose I deserve for using the words "Fuck off cop"?

Reread what I said above...If you are being a dick because you want to "stick it to the man", well expect the man to stick it back to you and write you up for those petty offenses he would have otherwise ignored.

Problem there is often times people have recieved BS citations for "disturbing the peace" or other nonsense citations which plainly don't apply (i.e. because contempt of cop isn't a crime), but still result in court time and hassle for the accused.

Differential punishment based on protected speech is not professional or in line with the Constitution.

That it may be difficult for a court to unambiguously distinguish this abuse of power from legitimate application of discretion doesn't mean that it is legitimate.

You have the right to free speech. You don't have the right to freedom from consequence of free speech.

And what consequence should be merited for the words "Fuck off cop"?

You getting treated equally shitty in return?

I don't think the concern is that the cop might in turn tell him to fuck off.

I use the hyperbolic case because it should still be allowed--even a kinder "I'm sorry, but I can't leave with you until you've got a warrant" can trigger a "Are you resisting? taze taze taze" event, as we've seen elsewhere. There is no assurance, no safety net, no hope in the system for common sense--and that's before you even take into account informal departmental policies (HPD: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.", Denver PD: "We get up early to beat the crowds").

Sure there are cases of abusing their power, this is normal for any industry, doesn't mean it is the norm.

Very few industries are capable of as thoroughly ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so.

We have to look at the worst-case outcomes and make our safeguards against them; anything else is inviting disaster.

There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs).

> ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so.

The mandate of law enforcement across the USA is to freely destroy peoples lives? Interesting...

>There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs).

Yes, I recall the NSA and other government agencies having such self-policing groups.

Tell me, do you really in your heart of hearts think a corrupt organization (say a police dept in a specific place.. if pressed for an example, say Maricopa County in Arizona?) has a functioning IA group?

The federal government has an IA group too. Many of them. I'm sure that if Snowden had raised his concerns with them, they would have gladly worked with him to solve those problems.......

Look, there are enough laws and regulations on the books that you can get written up (legally, strictly speaking) for almost anything. Then, it is up to you how far you wish to assert your innocence--the DA will offer to plea you out again and again, and if you make it to court they will then try to make an example out of you, using whatever tricks suit them (all legal, mind you!). There is plenty of evidence and coverage of this happening, so don't pretend it is unreasonable to fear.

That all said, going back to the very first interaction--you and the cop--we see that it becomes purely a decision on the cop's part whether or not you are going to be sent down into the machine.

Justice should not be so arbitrary, but here in the US it oftentimes is; don't pretend otherwise.

EDIT:

As for safeguards...the state can deprive you of years of freedom and set you free afterwards with an "oops". That's bullshit, even if the safeguards finally kick in. And if you end up with "resisting arrest" or just antagonizing the system or embarassing a DA, those safeguards seem to magically fail.

Internal Affairs is largely hollywood fantasy. If you have trouble with a local police department and need independant help dealing with it, the best you can really do is going to the FBI.

That "best" is pretty damn shit.

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