She's a beauty and a geek: Supermodel is a coder
cnn.com
cnn.com
Look, I'm a 30-something overweight white male programmer. I probably spend equal time, if not more, communicating with people around the world based on their ideas and what they write rather than their physical person. What this means is that I don't care if you're a gay paraplegic cross dressing dolphin, a woman that can't leave her house in the deepest parts of Saudi Arabia, a 12 year old in Australia, or another guy just like me. It. Doesn't. Matter.
I'm sure if you're reading this, you know the old joke that no one knows you're a dog behind a keyboard. If you have good ideas and are willing to talk about them, what your background is just doesn't really matter.
I've been around long enough that I've talked to everyone, from billionaire kids to poor grandparents. People's ideas and thoughts are more important than anything else to me.
I'm glad that this person has had success in multiple areas. Is it remarkable as a news-worthy event? Maybe for CNN, but they aren't exactly a reputable news source these days. For me, and hopefully others, she's just a good programmer.
In the end, all that matters is someone's ability to think. Whether they're a supermodel or a dog doesn't fucking matter.
So why does she matter? Because regardless of the reality, programming is still seen by the masses as a well paid janitorial function that only uncool, socially inept, nerdy males should do. (Notice that I didn't say could but should.) This is why a lot of people have a "I'm too good to stoop down and do this" attitude, when it comes to things like programming. "That guy should do it instead of me." Programming or most technical occupations just don't command the same level of respect in the West like a finance, legal, or medical job does regardless of the pay.
People like Scott give programming a cool and acceptable image for non-techies and people still deciding what they want to be in the future. imo, the main reason females aren't into stuff like programming is because of its negative social perception. LAST EDIT: When I think about it, I'm surprised I haven't read anything addressing this problem when it comes to attracting more females to tech.
And the reality is that a lot of programming jobs are well paid janitorial functions. There is a lot of self delusion happening in the American programming industry that one needs to be a certain level of smartness (Observe posts on how all genius programmers have been programming since their youth). It really doesn't. There is nothing inherently complicated about most pieces of software related work. Note that this doesn't necessarily mean that there is not a lot of hard work in doing this efficiently. It is just that American programmers are loud and opinionated on how it takes years and years to become a good programmer. In India and China, people don't spend time thinking about the level of intellect required to write code, they just do it. In fact, dozens and dozens of them, of both genders. Now, there is a lot of that code that is bad. Yet, that is merely the normal distribution working at scale.
People need to think of programming as another job. Just because you were a snowflake and were oppressed in your high school doesn't mean that whatever you do in life is touched with some special magic that makes it inherently removed by people of other sub-cultures.
> Now, there is a lot of that code that is bad. Yet, that is merely the normal distribution working at scale.
No. I feel that the majority of bad code that comes from those places is more due to culture than anything else. There's a mentality of "let's just get this done the fastest way possible without thinking about maintenance or the future." They don't really care about their work; they only care about the money it brings. There's no love for programming. It's just clock in and clock out. Regardless of how smart someone is, this type of thinking doesn't lead to quality code. (to be fair ppl like this exist here as well, just not as widespread or in the same proportion) Then there's the diploma mills that churn out graduates with no skills or preparation for a programming job... but that's another story. EDIT: It also doesn't help that the best and brightest in both places tend to leave for the West.
> People need to think of programming as another job.
This is the kind of thinking that leads to shitty work. It's hard for people to excel or churn out quality products when they're doing something for a paycheck that they don't really like doing.
1. On the idea that somehow technical debt is culturally ingrained in certain societies.
Silicon Valley is filled with countless programmers who continually drum the ship the shit out philosophy. If you haven't worked there, a rough sample of this forum's blog posts by clueless founders should indicate that.
I have worked in enough American run American programmer driven companies to know that technical debt is not an abstraction. It is a reality that is reflected by programmer pressures.
So it is not culture specific unless the culture you are talking about is programmer culture.
2. On the idea that western programmers care more about discipline rather than smarts.
Programming interviews as evidenced by personal experience and the realms of rants written online are a perfect reflector of the fallacy of that assertion. How the fuck is writing depth first search or some other bullshit graph search algorithm in 2 minutes any sign that you are a good programmer to design an iOS app?
It is. I can speak confidently about it (at least for China) since my family is from there, I was born in the region, and I worked in East Asia for period of time. I know the culture(s). Whether or not they are right or wrong, my Indian friends and colleagues have confirmed the same problem in their country of origin.
Culture does matter in general and it affects things like technical debt. It's the reason why the US favors lawyers and bankers over engineers and programmers (and why Asia will most likely eclipse us in the long run), and the same reason that places like Japan have a dearth of entrepreneurs due to their fear of failure and aversion to risk.
On a whole, people in mainland China just don't give a shit about anyone outside of their family (and maybe maybe their friends and even this is a stretch since it's a low trust society). All they really care about is maximizing their economic gains and increasing their social status. The cost (i.e. who you screw over) doesn't matter as long as it doesn't directly hurt anyone in their extended blood related family. Quality and a lot of other things suffer from this pervasive way of thinking.
> 2. On the idea that western programmers care more about discipline rather than smarts.
Maybe hot startups focus solely on smarts, but larger, older, and less hip companies tend to care more about experience and just competence (i.e. can you understand the work and get things done that doesn't end up being spaghetti?) instead of how brilliant you are.
I also have very mixed feelings about the term "geek" being used. It seems to be thrown around for everything nowadays, from people who watch Doctor Who to people who are actually deeply invested in STEM. It's a good and admirable skill to have these days, being able to throw an iOS app, but the term has really lost its weight.
So far she is a supermodel who codes, not a ninja coder that models.
You may not agree, but I think having more women and minorities in programming would be a good thing. Because I think that articles like this are a way to help get young women and minorities interested in programming, I like that this article exists, even though it wasn't written for me.
Full disclosure: I am a woman. I am also a student and CS major. I happen to be conventionally attractive, and rather than inspiring me, this kind of article contributes to certain fears I have, going into the industry. If we want to inspire young girls to be interested in programming, we should highlight the work of people like Marissa Meyer, who have worked really hard over many years...not give them the impression that being born tall and beautiful is as important as their resumes.
It is funny you say that because guess what showed up on my Linkedin news feed the other day. [1]
[1] http://qz.com/166317/why-it-makes-sense-to-pay-beautiful-ceo...
Regarding the article you posted - the advantage that attractive people have in the workplace is not limited to women; attractive men also earn this benefit. In fact, some studies show that if attractive women are applying for typically male-dominated fields, they are rated more negatively than their unattractive counterparts. Attractive males do not experience a noted disadvantage when applying for any job.
Further info on this phenomenon: http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/orsp_shahani-denning_spring03.pdf
I don't think that looks of Marrisa Mayer were not a factor in how much her story was covered.
When you say minorities, who exactly do you mean? Silicon Valley has more non white immigrants writing code than 'young white dudes'.
Non white immigrants to me are not minorities but I could be and I probably am wrong.
If you are going by the socio-cultural definition of a person who has not had the chances that the cultures in the U.S. have been given. There are enough minorities, American Indian, Hmong and so on to name a few.
If you are going by the definition of a person who ethnically belongs to a population who is not the majority, then there are Asians who have done well for themselves in the programming industry but still are minorities.
Oh also, sometimes there won't be people ahead to make the path for you. You have to get out there and make it yourself. I grew up in Ethiopia, touched a computer for the first time at the age of 16 (for thirty minutes because we paid by the minute). Not everyone has the magical opportunities that exist in America.
But yes, the article wasn't great, CNN as you say.
Can you tell me what you find to be a reputable news source? I'm not saying CNN is the best news source but they have to at least be in the top ten of news networks in the U.S. Maybe even in the top five?
And if you haven't noticed the general public does like "human interest" news. IMHO this is a step up from the local news in LA. It is at least positive rather than the overwhelmingly negative news that I seem to come across.
Anything that possibly encourages more young people (women) to get into programming should be encouraged (again IMHO).
TLDR...don't hate.
She as a black female supermodel can have much more impact on the world with her coding that overweight white guy that does exactly the same.
You're telling me, with no question, if you were to see this woman in the middle of the street, you would think she could absolutely be a coder?
You're telling me if you saw her at a conference, you would think she was there as an expert, and not to find a husband, or was part of the booth babes or help staff?
You're telling me if you saw her on the roster to speak at a conference, you'd think she got it because of her prowess and intellect, and not because she dolled up?
Not caring about people's racial characteristics is "colorblindness" and also racist.
That really is a catch-22 scenario.
In the US, there are still significant racial and gender issues. Ignoring them because you are "color blind" is not a commendable trait. It isn't racist; it is ignoring racism.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/comic-riffs/post/nobody-...
I know the article was a bit fluffy- as human interest stuff often is - but I'm impressed. Anyone know her Github?
I'm really confused. Are we onto third or fourth wave feminism yet? I thought body shaming was bad and the modelling industry was evil.
Aren't we always being appealed to, as nerds, to empathize with groups that are underrepresented in tech, because we too, didn't fit in in high school?
Edit: this isn't a joke, it's something I actually heard from a few sources.
By emphasizing her uniqueness, they're perpetuating the stereotype they claim to abhor.
who cares? I get the points about the stereotypes in the article, which was pretty shallow. though there did exist the point that people don't always conform to stereotypes. models can be smart, nerds can be attractive.
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"We have this idea of people in technology being and looking a certain way," she said. "That stereotype is destructive, and I think that's part of the reason why female and minority programmers are so few."
...
Her personal opinions and prejudices aside, the article is a tad hypocritical. It's hard to tell to whom the stereotype is most destructive. The media has created and maintains the "nerd stereotype", which I would argue is more destructive to those who are classified as such: since they have to overcome a far more general prejudice than lack of visibility in a particular field.
CNN has a lot of nerve to use a racial slur such as 'pasty-faced'. I believe the correct term is Caucasian.
I am all for dropping the obviously false stereotype about nerds. But let's not paint this particular oppressed group as villains.
Do you see what I am doing here? Look for the truth my friends, and come to your own conclusions. Do not be complacent with their lies.
I really hope this is sarcasm - pasty-faced quite obviously implies Caucasian, but specifically those with a lack of exposure to natural light i.e. being cooped up inside all day long with a computer prevents one from developing a tan.
Theory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6441795
Potential examples:
1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6885123 - Homeless coder starts app
2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6365495 - Africans genetically more corrupt?
3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6448409 - Rick Ross's history
4. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6857739 - Nelson Mandela dies
5. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6035263 - (Most obvious)Resume with black vs white name
6. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6902563 - Cover up racist+sexist mindset in Harvard
7. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6907915 - Homeless coder finishes app
8. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6975732 - BlackGirlsCode event
9. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7040437 - BlackGirlsCode event mentioned in list of female-focused events in tech.
What is actually happening is that every time a story promoting progressive views on race/gender (this story explicitly mentions gender), people post to disagree with the message of the story.
I think you mean 'specious', though I guess 'spacious' also fits that description.
Perhaps their thinking is that if people who are born with the privilege of being White and male end up as losers, then those people must be objectively inferior and so there is nothing wrong with making fun of them. I have trouble following progressive thinking sometimes.
Please spare us your faux outrage. "Pasty faced" is not a racial slur by any reasonable definition of the term.
I'd like to see dancers who code, news anchormen, judges, soccer players and boxers who code (although last two might be harder with all the micro concussions).