Ask HN: Help, How to deal with severe ADHD as a programmer? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Help, How to deal with severe ADHD as a programmer?

I can only do things which are extremely interesting or challenging or if it happens to be of personal interest. I get easily distracted when dealing with mundane tasks. I procrastinate a lot. I am forgetful and not detail oriented. I tried medication but it gives me insomnia and a racing heart. Mindfulness meditation helps a lot but I cannot bring myself to do it everyday. The only good thing about ADHD is the creativity/out of the box/ non-linear thinking, which I seem to have. Created a few products on the side which seem to show commercial potential. I want to know if it is possible to hold on to a job without being anxious/stressed out. Is it possible to become a great and successful programmer despite ADHD?

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I have real bad ADHD, and everything you say rings true.

There are (only) two things that seem to help me: (social) commitment that would be unthinkable to back out of, and random fluctuations in neurochemistry.

I have a job, and find that I have very little trouble maintaining a good work ethic at work. Especially when the boss tells me to do something differently. The social and commitment aspects really motivate me. Beeminder (https://www.beeminder.com/) is really awesome as well, until your brain figures out that you can cheat. For doing work outside of work, I have a few friends that I just meet up with and mutually enforce work-time, which is really helpful and always productive.

On top of that, I notice major shifts in ability to do work that seem to have nothing to do with anything. Some days I'm randomly on top of the world and able to do huge amounts of highly productive and creative work, other days I can't even focus on what's in front of me (sometimes literally). I can only explain this in terms of random neurochemistry quirks. Unfortunately I can't control it. One thing that seems to help is standing in a dominant victory pose and counting to 300 as fast as possible, which raises testosterone and lowers cortisol. It seems to help a lot if you can remember to do it.

(Solving neurochemistry would be extremely lucrative; there are thousands of people who are separated from large wealth only by this factor.)

So I'd say you are fine on holding a job, but the jury is still out on becoming great.

Ooh, hey, thanks for pointing out Beeminder! We often have users tell us it's great for people with ADHD, and we have some thoughts on the cheating problem you mention: http://blog.beeminder.com/cheating

    > I tried medication but it gives me insomnia
    > and a racing heart.

Try a lower dose. In particular, start at the minimum dose.

If you are prescribed 20mg Adderall XR or 50mg Vyvanse (or equivalent), then that's an insane first-timer dose.

Pills have risks and side-effects for sure. But so does making zero progress on your ambitions in life.

Maybe you can find something less harsh: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics

There are also non-stimulant drugs for ADHD which could maybe work for OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomoxetine

Mom's in the medical field. She attended a seminar led by a psychologist/psychiatrist husband/wife team. The husband found, as an adult, that he did benefit from the medication (Adderall), but at a much lower dose than is considered typical. 2.5 mg, IIRC.

Apparently, some people are more sensitive -- or, whatever term you want to use -- to the medication; for them, a "standard" dose is too much.

If you still have some tablets left and are unsure how your doctor might receive such a notion, you could use a pill cutter to create your own lower dose. If/As you've already been prescribed a higher dose, and given that the medication is not essential to life function and you've already safely been able to discontinue that higher dose, I don't see how trying a lower dose would present any additional risk.

However, I'm not a doctor, you should talk to your doctor, etc. Just... some of them seem to be pretty narrow-minded including about the possible efficacy of lower doses.

P.S. It really would be best to discuss it with your doctor. And as for my scenario with the pill cutter (again, preferably with the doctor's knowledge): That will only work with "instant release" forms, where there is no delayed release mechanism. Cutting a delayed release tablet can partially or totally defeat the delayed release design/mechanism, resulting in a spike in absorption that is undesigned and that may present a health risk.

I was prescribed 10 mg in the beginning but I requested the doc to increase it to 30 mg. I thought higher dose helps. Then the side effects started showing. I will ask for lower dosage.

UPDATE: I went for medication again and decreased the dosage from 30 mg to 20 mg and I feel the possibility of my life turning around. I am more productive. Thanks for the advice.

I don't know if I have ADHD, but am similar in many ways to your description.

I've recently tried meditating to attempt to be more focused, though I don't think it is really helping.

What has helped (during work anyway) is using the Pomodoro Technique. I have the clock in front of me all the time, and you'd be amazed at how quickly 25 minutes counts down. I treat each Pomodoro like a mini-sprint. I am only allowed to work on one feature during a Pomodoro. I am only allowed to write in one language in a Pomodoro. That forces me to write my tests, and my feature and run the tests etc. etc. I'd much rather be doing that than sitting there staring at the screen because I won't allow myself to surf HN or FB.

As far as being forgetful and being more detail oriented, I haven't found a solution for that yet. I am trying herbal supplements like St. John's Wort, and I think it calms me down a bit (I definitely sleep better and don't grind my teeth as much), but sorry, don't have a good answer for you on that part.

I have an ASD, and many of the same problems focusing. The only cure for being forgetful is a pen and a piece of paper. Keep a small notebook that you carry at all times. Don't write anything in it other than the things that you are supposed to remember to do.

I have adhd and I suffer the same problems! I am currently in university (IT-Networking security), I do use medication and meditation. I find that motivation is the hardest part of everything even with the medication!

This helps with my motivation: http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-se...

Become a Morning Person: https://medium.com/life-tips/621b93619b30

Quick tips(things that help me):

- 43 folders method of organization

- Actively tell your self when you forget or procrastinate, its normal just get back on track and smile

- Make habits through repetition (spend that time regardless if you are able to do it or not)

- Your will power is finite make sure have small meals and a snack half way through each to keep energy up

- Making decisions is very tiring, so be forgiving

- Make everything smaller- if you can reduce the information the easier it is for you in the future

- Always tell yourself: it is easy, it will take no time, get a little done, you don't have to finish it just start it

- Have a beer or do something else like watching tv while trying to start a new habit or task, even though you won't get much done you have done more that you would have with out it!

Sorry if my grammar is terrible, or if this wasn't what you where looking for! It really helped me out to list it all :D

  > This helps with my motivation: http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-se...

As an aside, Seinfeld himself recently dispelled the rumor that he was the creator of, or ever even used this method, in a Reddit AMA [1] -- even calling it dumb:

1. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ujvrg/jerry_seinfeld_...

Well that said it does kinda seem like the github commit history calendar.

Well if you feel like you're bored with mundane stuff you could do what I do and take contract work. Most people think it's terrible and occasionally you get some bad companies but most of the time I am hired for a specific project and it's only 3-6 months so I can get everything in place, if I like them maybe clean up a bit of their technical debt, and then find another contract before the boredom sets in.

Other than that I take a ton of wellbutrin instead of adderall. It's ostensibly for depression but the side effect of the extended release tabs is it acts like a mild upper for about 12 hours.

I've never been able to get past the part where I feel like meditation is wasting my time. Other people I know who have this issue mostly beat themselves up at the gym 4-5 times a week. I've spent some time trying that in the past and it helped a little if I took care of it in the morning before work.

Try the pomodoro technique[0]. It may seem cheesy, but it's a good way to flex your discipline muscle. You basically choose a task and focus on it for 20 uninterrupted minutes at a time.

Once you've mastered going through 20 uninterrupted minutes and can do it easily every time you have small definable task that fits in a 20 minute slot, go ahead and start working on controlling the procrastination time that might occupy the spaces between your 20 minutes of productivity. I've heard a lot of good things about rescue time[1]

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique [1] https://www.rescuetime.com/

A to-do list for everything. If it isn't on a list then it isn't getting done. In addition to timers, I try to have to things I'm working on. That way I can switch back and forth. Work in bursts and then take a break for 5 minutes. Try to get some daily physical activity. I find that exercise is one of the few times I can reliably get my brain to shut off. I personally think caffeine helps me, but try to identify if any food makes it better or worse.

Sounds familiar. I was trying 'three things per day' technique, but found it overwhelming so I simplified it down to 'one thing'. Each day I am setting one goal, which can be anything, and I have to accomplish it. Helps to establish the routine and some sort of discipline.

Edit: it is also important to understand that out of the box nonlinear creativity etc in our case serves just one purpose - to find excuses not to do what we are supposed to do.

Exercise!

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/adult-adhd-and-exercise

Wow, I'm currently in the same boat and relate to all that you've said. Monitoring this thread.

That said, currently I'm looking into DIY soylent, though I have a pretty decent diet anyway and nootropics. Nootropics seem to have potential but I've yet to gain first hand experience.

I'm also looking for a way to make mindfulness meditation a habit as I cannot bring myself to do it daily either, it does help though.

There was this talk by a programmer with bipolar and I think ADHD. He couldn't hold a job for more than a year. I can't find it, but very inspiring and helpful to understanding both.

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/116730/progra...

You should just attempt forcing yourself to do the "dirty" work. We'd all like to be coding the matrix, but most people just need wordpress websites, so just force yourself.

I can't give you any magic secret or formula beyond that, because none exist (as far as I know).

Being a coder though, isn't it all fun to you? I find typing like a maniac fun.

>so just force yourself.

>just

ADHD doesn't work like that. "just" supposes willpower, ADHDers have low willpower. The whole problem is how to "just" do something, so reiterating that is a non-solution.

ADHD isn't really a problem. AIDS is a problem. Malaria is a problem. TB is a problem. First-world emotional issues aren't a problem. If that were the case, I would think 95% of Iraqis would need psychiatric and psychological assistance.

So essentially you need to learn to convert "boring" things to "extremely interesting" things.

This may include an ability to stop putting "boring!" label on stuff.

So use your powerful creativity to create methodology to accomplish above and the problem is solved!

PS: Bonus:

once you accomplish above - sell your solution to 10,000,000 of other ADHD people at $10 each.

You do the math.

I've found that it can help to set a timer, because then the task isn't "work until it's done", but instead "work for 5/10/XX minutes". When my brain just isn't cooperating at all , I try to find simpler things to work on, which still contribute to the whole.

I think it would be pretty difficult being a successful programmer if you struggle with mental focus and attention to detail. Are you sure it's the right field for you?

It would be useful to know how old you are. Most of us grow less ADHD throughout our 20s as our brains develop.

28. Have 2 years of programming experience.

Brainwave entrainment while you are working. Piracetam. Acetyl L-Carnitine.

Strattera

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