Show HN: Free, open-source site for finding beautiful hikes
hike.io
hike.io
Firstly: Dont be disheartened by my criticism which will follow. Its a decent first attempt, the idea is absolutely worth working on, and could become a valuable resource for a lot of people. On to the criticism....
What goes in the search? Are hikes named? Do I need to know the name to search for? Search for a location? From the first page, what do I expect from the site?
I click discover. Nice pictures. Click one. A description. I expected a map and what not. Not a big blob of text. Why not trail mini map?
As after a few click I didn't see anything useful, I gave up.
I don't initially see what the site is doing or offering. First think I think of looking for hikes is a map of the hike, where it is and the route itself. That tells me a hell of a lot in one go. Where it is, the terrain, length, and so on. Having seen that, then I want information.
I would add a defined difficulty level. Family hike? Casual hike? Hike for the experienced? What kit level? Do I need more than boots? And so on.
UI. Now, I don't like the flat design thing. Thats me. But, I was relieved to see you didn't got the the awful for ever scrolling down thing. So, this "asshole" (I was called that here for not liking those sites) is happy about that!!! But, on a serious note, in my experience, hikers tend to be older, and it might be that a more traditional site would be better suited. I dont know, but it might be worth trying to understand who is likely to use your site and find out what sort of UI they like to use. Or maybe offer a couple of skins ot layouts, one for trendy people and one for us old crusties.
Personally, I think the whole thing need a fundamental re-think, from landing page onwards. It is great idea. Hiking is an area which could do with a damn good info source. IMHO, there are a lot of problems. But, like I said, keep working on it. Its worth it, and I can see you do seem to have the skills to make it work.
Personally, I look forward to V2. Best of luck. It is a good idea, had huge potential, and I'd like to see it progress.
A number of people now have mentioned that the first page is not working, so that's something I'm going to reevaluate. I need more info there beyond a daunting search box. At the moment, you can type in the name of a hike and it will show up, e.g. try "The Narrows". The site assumes hikes are named. If you're searching for a location, then you need to go to the maps. I should probably support searching for a location via the search box, e.g. if you search for colorado it will show you all the hikes in colorado, or zoom you into colorado on the map.
Maps. Currently the way to get to the maps is from the lat / lng link in the info box on the side. This will take you to a full screen map with a dot for that location. From here, I'd like to add support for GPX routes, but that is not implemented. It's interesting that you're keen on having maps as the focus because I find that maps aren't that useful for me when researching a hike, I just want the highlights - distance, elevation gain, elevation max, and then I want to see pictures of what the hike has to offer.
Thanks for the encouragement, I'm taking a lot from these comments and will have plenty to work on.
But like the first poster said, there are some usability issues to fix.
Not sure if this was mentioned but for me the landing page works but I immediately click on Map because I don't know what to search for. Do place names show hikes in a specific radius? If so, what's the radius?
So map was much more straight forward to me, but when I then click on a red dot on the map I can't return to where I was on the map and the only way is to click Map again and return to the north american continent view.
That is annoying that the map doesn't remember where you were. Seems like the best way to handle that is to store your last location in localstore.
When I add support for searching by location (because this seems to be a popular request), then I think it should zoom you into the location, enough so that you could see all of Seattle. I think this can be done with google's jsapi / google maps but I'm going to have to investigate.
What I expected was a location-based thing: show me hikes near where I live. I would find that tremendously useful.
Good start!
Another idea regarding the usefulness of the landing page. Whilst I like to browse the hikes from other countries as some of them look very spectacular, it's not particularly useful to me. Perhaps with a bit of work you could do a 'get location by IP Address' or something similar and thereby suggest hikes local to me, or at least in the same country/continent.
AirBnB is a great example of categories done right. I'll look into that.
I would suggest you look at camptocamp.org, it's run by a french non profit (CC data, also has an english interface) and has a lot of users posting their hikes. It's pretty useful if you want fresh data about the terrain conditions of your future hike. They have a split by activities (just hiking, rock climbing, ice climbing, etc.) and also by hiking grade, height diff up, etc.
On a personal note I have a small webapp I used to share my location while hiking alone: http://gr5.herokuapp.com/ it has mini-maps based on the gps data I uploaded at the end of each day.
- It's all about hikes. Detailed trail information, beautiful photos, full screen maps, and not much else.
- It's editable. Anyone can add new hikes or modify existing ones, without having to sign in. (It's contenteditable and goes through a review process, try it out!)
- It's free. No paywalls or ads. Ever.
- It's open. The site's data is available under Creative Commons. The code is open source (I used AngularJS and Sinatra: http://git.io/hike.io)
There are still things I want to do. For example, GPX support, trip reports, and obviously I need more hikes on the site, but I thought I'd get it out there anyway in order to get some feedback. Any thoughts?
You say no paywalls or ads- what if this takes off? Just curious what you'd resort to.
The overall design looks very nice so Google adsense type ads would take away from that.
Have you thought about getting individual trails "sponsored" by a local outfitter? In the info box on the left side you could have Sponsored by Joes Outfitters with a link to their site, and it would match the rest of the text so it wouldn't even be that noticeable.
Someone mentioned affiliate links in a bibliography section. I could see that working because it's not intrusive, but you'd have to be careful not letting your sources be dictated by what's available on Amazon. I like donations because it keeps the financial goals of the site inline with creating the best experience.
I could see sponsorship links working, maybe on the homepage, or maybe in a separate /sponsors page. I'm not completely sure, it's a tricky problem.
Quick question - how do you prevent spam?
I'm using Mailgun to do the mail stuff: https://github.com/zaknelson/hike.io/blob/master/server/util...
- Let hikes to include GPS route(s) to display on the map.
- Link to the USGS topo map that covers a given hike: http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(xcm=r3standa...
- Add a bibliography to each hike.
- Scrape some websites to create "stubs" for new hikes and encourage users to develop these.
- Speaking of stubs, if you are going to have collaboratively edited content why not just build on MediaWiki or similar?
- Use OpenStreetMaps instead of GMaps and encourage users to add trails to OSM.
-GPX support is top of my list of TODOs.
-I like the USGS topo / OSM idea. I'll have to do some investigation to see how it compares with Google Maps.
- I agree that a bibliography is a must. This is also something I would have gotten for free with MediaWiki. The reason I didn't build on top of that was, basically because I wanted to have complete control over the end result. Writing the code was the fun part for me. That being said, I wouldn't completely write it off.
- And I did write one scraper already for wta.org, but was unsure about whether that was ok to do or not...
Also one simple way to try to raise money for the site is to use affiliate links to Amazon for any [e]books in the bibliography.
Maybe also suggestions or random features on the front page? That could lead in to the discover page.
Run through "top hikes" sites for ideas on what to add yourself and build up your content. I was a bit surprised not to find more; you could build a starting list and then knock off adding 10-20 each night for a week and get your numbers up.
I've also found some arbitrary rankings or suggestions can be a good way to find the most special experiences. If photos are the only method of discovery, everyone ends up in Monument Valley and miss Arches when it should be the other way around.
This site (http://besthike.com/) is ugly but isn't a terrible way to get ideas of new hikes to research. I've found a few through that site which I've really enjoyed (TMB, Huashan, TLG, etc).
And good point about The Narrows. I should have that info on there.
You did submit it, so not much of an excuse! ;)
No downside to adding loads more content, whether for a Show HN or for the general well-being of the site regardless of HN. Go for it. Would be great to have more photo-oriented hiking sites out there.
It's an interesting experience and worth doing.
Kudos on the "free and open" promise! I hate logins.
Critique: - I second the suggestion to encourage contributing to OSM. Most popular hikes will be in OSM already and adding them to hike.io could be as easy as selecting the route on the OSM layer. - can you use a USGS layer for US locations? see mapper.acme.com - Adding an entry should be easier. I selected the coords, but was still required to enter the state, country. I would like to simply add a few points on a map and have the elevation/gain calculated for me - driving directions? why a block of text? why not a link to google driving directions?
The reason I've been writing driving directions in a wall of text is because in a lot of cases, google doesn't map all of the forest roads required to get to the trailhead. There are some hikes, like http://hike.io/hikes/mount-rose, which do and in that case I include the link in the Directions header. I thought it might be nice to also include the step by step directions in case you don't have an internet connection, but you're right, it feels extraneous.
And, I'm going to have to investigate OSM, you're the second suggest that.
https://www.mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-streets-terrain/
This site maybe doesn't have the greatest UI, but it works for exploring some of the data that is available:
http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=9&lat=40.44379&lo...
(If you click the "Routes" button in the lower right it pops up a box listing the routes near the current view)
One of the best-implemented hiking sites in my opinion is hikr.org, though the information I need tends to be on local sites like wta.org or nwhikers.net.
In addition to submitting trip reports to wta.org, I keep a record of my hikes at https://zenobase.com/#/buckets/u07qih0a27/. It's a more general-purpose service, but I can filter by any combination of region, hiking distance, duration, season etc.
Thanks for the hikr.org link, I haven't come across that one before. And very cool trip tracker of your hikes.
The only downside would be connectivity issues while on the trail.
Also, I'm not sure how multi-trails hikes should be organized. I tried to add the Annapurna Circuit in Nepal which I did a few months ago (and is actually a series of hikes between villages) but I could not figure it out and gave up.
Good work though, don't give up now! I know a lot of people who have been looking for a site like that :-)
Multi-trail circuits are not really supported at the moment, but I like the idea. You could hack your way around it currently by creating a "master hike", call it Annapurna Circuit, and then link to the other sub-trails from the master.
I've created issues for both of the things you've mentioned - https://github.com/zaknelson/hike.io/issues
Also, most of the hikers are in a group, there should be a way to create a group tied to a specific area.
Finally, you should think of something better than donations to keep this going, because potentially it can go very far. The thing is you are hosting pictures, can't you use an external provider (flikr, picasa)? Otherwise, if you reach an important size (and for this site, you have to), even a supporter budge (a la couchsurfing) for $5 a year could bring you nice revenues.
In terms of monetization, all I know at this point is that I want it to be freely available without ads. Beyond that, I'm flexible. A supporter badge could work. I was also thinking it would be cool if there was a way to monetize the pictures. For example, if you could order prints, a portion of the revenue would go to original photographer and hike.io.
I'm going to be biased because I like hiking, so what a surprise I like a hiking site.
I already upload pix of hikes to panoramio, perhaps you could share those pix. Panoramio's licensing system is totally bizarre, I think they're trying to get permission for simple CC:SA from uploaders but they dumb it down into prose so I'm not entirely sure what they're asking. Licensing equivalent of security thru obscurity. If you're trying to CC:SA or CC:NC then just call it CC:SA or CC:NC instead of making the verbal equivalent of an interpretive dance.
Aside from pure and simple CRUD it would be interesting to see more complicated stuff. Find me the hikes within 10 miles of my sister's house and shorter than 3 miles and a low vertical component so when we visit in the summer we can take a short hike with the little kids. Or some kind of popularity stats or voting for most beautiful scenery, or least mosquitoes. Given a pile of data there should be more to do with it than "find me a name" and "its nearby". A query that sounds like "Find me the hike within 50 miles of my house with the fewest pix and/or shortest writeup"
(edited to add, something I've never seen before, but would be hilarious, would be rating hikes not by the usual stars or distance but little icons of mosquitoes, or bug spray icons or something, wetlands (swamps) are beautiful in the winter or around a hard freeze, but in the summer, ugh)
Something I've never seen before that just jumped into my head is integration of weather.gov weather reports / forecasts with hike data. Am I wise or an idiot to want to visit Glacier National Park in April? Shorter term, I have this Friday off, will it be good traveling weather to go 25 miles away or should I stick to snow shoeing in the local park (because of a blizzard, or perhaps it'll be -20F again and even the locals stay close to home when its below -10F)
WRT polite monetization, if your site took off and I participated, if my wife bought me a logo-d tee shirt for my birthday, I might wear it when hiking, in the summer anyway. Or amazon affiliate links might not be too intrusive.
Regarding my suggestions above, take them positively as intended.
I typed in "Goat Rocks", since, well, Goat Rocks. No results.
Then I clicked "Discover", which prominently featured Glacier Lake, which has the intro text: Glacier Lake is a hike within Goat Rocks Wilderness in western Washington state.
... Shouldn't that have come up in my search then?
I've added an issue - https://github.com/zaknelson/hike.io/issues/24
I haven't seeded production with it yet because I was a bit unsure on whether that was ok to do. Maybe I should send them an email...
I think scraping stuff like this would be a good start to get an initially useful set of data started. I know I'd love a better map for SNAs.
I've been thinking of creating a hiking app for a while now, but just haven't been able to free up time. When I was living in Berkeley, I think I went hiking pretty much every single weekend, and I could think of a ton of things I'd have liked to have been able to access on my phone to make my experiences that much richer.
Anyway, good stuff and kudos for open-sourcing it all!
Hopefully useful feedback: when I saw that, I immediately thought "what are some nice hikes around where I live?" and even though the tagline is "Find beautiful hikes", the homepage doesn't suggest that I can find the answer here. Maybe that's not the point of hike.io, maybe there's another website that would help me better, I don't know.
Anyway, the big picture of the Narrows, which is one of the very few hikes I've done, inspired me to look for new trails around where I live. Thanks for that!
And good luck, I can't wait to see how hike.io will grow!
Thanks for the feedback too. I want to support finding nearby hikes in two ways:
1. If you go to the maps page, it should zoom you into your location and show you hikes nearby. That part works, but I also wish it zoomed out when no hikes are within your current viewport.
2. Also (and this part isn't done), I wish there was a way to filter the Discover images by location.
Feel free to add any of your local trails or update the Narrows.
Likewise on the 'Discover' feature. If I am looking to go on a hike, seeing nice picture from 4 states away doesn't help me.
The map search is where it is at, if you get enough content in there. Right now, the content is so limited that it is not even worth discussing.
It does show promise, but I'm also not sure why I would use your site vs. any of the other dozen sites that can tell me where my local hikes are.
Admittedly, Google Maps is much prettier than I remember.
- Dated reviews and pictures. This is one of the biggest things I look for when searching out hikes and haven't found a reliable site for
- Hiking buddies? I think adding an "I want to hike this" button, and having some way for people to contact each other and plan hikes would be cool and I'd definitely take advantage of it.
Are you manually typing out all the data or you hired someone to type all this out. I know you are using community to edit this , but who made contribution for the first time ?
http://weatherguru.metwit.com/ based on Foursquare API + Metwit weather API.
Any feedback? http://hiking.metwit.com/
Thanks!
(the site is beautifully designed though)
Do you have other suggestions?
I was playing with the MapBox SDK roughly a year ago and I remember having a lot of trouble at the time panning and zooming. This was on a Droid X. So gave up on it at the time, even though I thought the desktop experience was so great.
Anyway, I just tested again, and whatever I was seeing before is not there. I'll give MapBox another shot.
Plus maps and info on how to get there.
To make the home-page a bit nicer you could include a list of examples to try out in the search bar. Right now it is hard to decide what to type into the box.
1. I know exactly which hike I'm looking for. I type it in, and there it is (I know that currently that is almost never true, but let's assume there is a good number of hikes on there already).
2. I want to find hikes near me - rather than type it in, I go to the Maps tab. It should automatically zoom me into my location, to display hikes near me.
3. I want to explore new hikes, not necessarily close to me. That's where the Discover tab is useful.
Watching the logs and reading the comments here, I'm finding that it's very natural to search for a location as well. I'm adding it to my TODO.
Dead simple, clean UI, and just great picks of landscape photos as well.
Good job man.
But, still a pretty cool site
Putting some more info on the homepage is a good idea, whether that ends up being the Discover page... I'm going to mull on it for a bit. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
At this point, I'd say just add it, since I'd rather have more data. If it becomes a popular resource, I suppose the site will need a clearer definition of what constitutes a hike.