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Comment by brudgers | Hacker News Reader

Until I started using EMACS I would have thought the author's argument was a slam dunk four star lock. Now I realize that habits are habits because they're habits, not because they are the right way of doing something.

We are more flexible than our machines, and though it might take a day or two to figure out home` and `end`, a laptop is a tool that one uses for years.

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You missed one key point of the article, this is only practical if it's the only machine you use. When you try to switch between an "innovative" keyboard and a "normal" keyboard you'll go batty.

This is also highly theoretical. If the machines are different enough, you can adapt quite well. Even if you have trouble telling other people exactly what to do, your brain doesn't have much trouble. I especially find it easier if I use different operating systems with keyboards that are somewhat different, because my brain has an easier time treating them differently when there are visual cues (since I'm not looking at the keyboard).

For instance, I have always though that cmd+X/C/V vs. ctrl+X/C/V would drive anyone nuts if they used them enough, and realistically most of the common Mac/Windows editors commands have exactly that one difference of ctrl vs. cmd, which is essentially pinky vs. thumb (at least for me) for the modifier key. It turns out that it is extremely rare for me to accidentally use the wrong one even though I usually use the same software in both environments, because my brain picks up on visual cues from the OS and the tactile differences between my keyboards.

Of course, coming from this mix of environments, I think they could have taken the cue from the MacBook and just kept the backspace key and removed the delete key (even though Apple wants to call it the delete key...), rather than bastardizing the key with that weird split key.

i remapped cmd and fn keys. i can now press windows like keys. :D

Over the past year I've used four drastically different types of keyboards: a classic keyboard, a lenovo laptop, a Truly Ergonomic Keyboard [0], and an Ergo Dox [1].

The laptop keyboard was pretty normal, but Fn and Ctrl are switched. When my other keyboard was a classic keyboard this was a huge problem, I couldn't get used to Ctrl not being an outside key. That problem went away once I switched to the TEK, I think because the layout was different enough that I developed different touch typing skills. The Dox is even more different, and it's easier to switch between laptop, Dox, and classic keyboards.

[0] https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

[1] http://ergodox.org/Default.aspx

I thought the author sounded like a curmudgeony luddite. Ofcourse anything "different" will feel wrong for a little while. You have some muscle memory that you need to get over. So if you really wanna write a review, suck it up and use it till your fingers get rewired. Then write your reviews complaining about keyboard design.

I don't think he even tried the keyboards he's talking about, let alone give himself some time to get used to them.

I don't go read Vi's man page and then complain how it's too hard and unusual.

Have you met the author? Peter is opinionated, but most of the time he has a valid reason for it. As a writer and a programmer, a good keyboard is a necessity for his work. (I'd bet he's typed as many or more lines of code than a good number of folks here at HN.)

At work we have have folks that order and try out several different keyboards before settling on one that meets their needs. When a programmer makes 80K, a few extra hundred dollars at the extreme to make them efficient and happy is noise in the budget. Even our interns get their choice.

I take your point, but the OA was reviewing a laptop. No choice of keyboard, and perhaps need to mode shift between non-standard and standard key positions.

I attempt to play piano. Any clever redesigns of that 88 key layout are not going to work.

I chose my laptop mainly on the quality and layout of the keyboard. Unlike the OP, I don't travel as much so I had more choices due to the fact I have 17.3" laptop.

I think you missed the point where someone may have more than one keyboard and switching between is an necessary pain. Yeah If you want to train yourself to use a keyboard layout no big deal but if you're like me and you switch from server to server during the day having a consistent keyboard layout means I can thing about what I'm doing and not worry about typing.

Switching to emacs may have some productivity gains for you that make re-training useful. There is no added benefit for me to learn to type again.

I switch from EMACS to applications with CUA mappings to websites with their own mappings to graphics applications where moving by words and lines doesn't even make sense. Then there's PowerShell.

I don't bang with gas pliers or grip with a Torx screwdriver. Tools are rigid. My brain and body flexible. But if I was switching machines all day I would bring my Microsoft natural ergonomic 4000 with me.

I was going to say the same thing. But then, my MacBook DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT CTRL KEY. I... I can't begin to explain how annoyed I am of this fact. This, above all else, is the reason for why my next laptop will probably not be a Mac.

I use KeyRemap4MacBook[1] to map the enter/return key to control, but only if held down. If you tap it, it's still return. Sounds weird but it works really well, it's a large target, and it roughly mirrors caps lock as control on the left hand.

[1] http://pqrs.org/macosx/keyremap4macbook/index.html

Try remapping it so that the Command buttons, i.e., the keys next to the Space Bar, are Control. This was the position of the old Symbolics machines. To my hands, it makes Emacs much more efficient, since the rest position for the thumbs can be between the Space Bar and the Control keys.

I tried that and it worked great for Emacs, but it messes with normal OSX operation.

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