Poll: Do you own a working television? | Hacker News Reader

Poll: Do you own a working television?

28 pointsjgrahamc90 comments

At the start of 2009 by accident rather than design I stopped having a television at home. Since then I've failed to buy a new one and I've been happy with the overall experience. A handful of times I've watched some old program using the BBC iPlayer, but haven't felt the need for a permanent TV.

I'm wondering what percentage of of HN people don't have a television.

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I've never owned a television in my life. This has the following consequences:

- There's a lot of smalltalk I can't engage in, you might not notice but there's a lot of references to TV personalities in daily interaction with people.

- Sometimes I miss big stories that are only communicated through television. Typically some documentary about online predators, horrible conditions at old people's home or such. Everyone but me seems to know.

- I'm terrible at movie trivia and references since I don't really watch any.

- I'm forced to do something when I'm bored. I can't just turn on the telly and chill out, I have to do something active like reading a book, fixing my boat or commenting on Hacker news.

- When I watch television somewhere I instantly think how much facade and how little information the medium contains. This has gotten worse over the years.

- I have a lot of freetime to do stuff.

On the social aspect where you don't get to know about people I had this effect when I returned to the UK after 15 years away. Since I had no idea who the new, local celebrities were I would find myself slightly alienated from conversations about people such as Jordan/Katie Price.

Who?

That was my reaction. But now I know (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_%28Katie_Price%29) Don't click that link unless you really want to know, some things can't be unlearnt.

I've taken your advice, and not clicked that link. The tabloid covers I've seen while getting groceries reinforces that fact.

thanks for the disclaimer!

I wish everyone was that careful when infecting others with memes.

"- There's a lot of smalltalk I can't engage in, you might not notice but there's a lot of references to TV personalities in daily interaction with people."

Heh, I know exactly how you feel. Normally I'm fine with being left out of those conversations though.

"- When I watch television somewhere I instantly think how much facade and how little information the medium contains. This has gotten worse over the years."

This is also spot on, besides it feeling like a facade, it also is very very boring.

Oh, come on. Reading a book's as active as watching TV or YouTube. You're still being fed substance by somebody else. All of these have the potential to teach you, but none of them truly involve you.

True, but the quality of TV is amazingly low.

There are a lot of good books out there that deserve to be read and not a lot of TV deserving to be watched.

People like to claim that TV is only full of crap. This is grade A, Microsoft-FUD-level, Bullshit.

Like anything, sure, most of it is crap. Just like if you went to a bookstore and picked up 10 random fantasy novels. You might conclude that they're all just cookie cutter pablum - most are - but then you miss out on George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice, Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana, LeGuin's Earthsea, and other truly excellent works of fiction.

But like anything, it takes some investment to tell the good from the bad. If you just watch Jon & Kate Plus 8, Entertainment Tonight, and According to Jim, yeah, you're better off without the TV altogether. But I claim that there's more good TV being made now than at any time in history, particularly for niche markets.

Here's some of my recommendations: Mythbusters, Penn & Teller's Bullshit, Supernatural, Dollhouse, The Office, 30 Rock, Lost, The Simpsons (not as great as it was, but still fun), The Daily Show/Colbert Report, Mad Men... and more, there's just a ton of really high quality work being done.

If your argument is that instead, you watch things online/through netflix, that makes sense. If I didn't enjoy live sports sometimes, I'd consider doing the same.

Not everyone has to have a hobby of watching television, or movies, or reading for that matter, but the opinion that it's all crap is extremely ill-informed and snobbish, and I strongly encourage it to be dropped as something that makes you sound actively stupid when you say it. It's an anti-pattern.

What percentage of people who don't own a TV, like to tell you at every single opportunity that they don't own a TV.

May I politely tell you to "bog off"?

I've never blogged about this change in my TV owning situation, and never bored anyone with it. It occurred to me that I was probably not alone and having been hassled by the TV licensing people in the UK because they don't seem to believe me, I wondered how many other people don't have a working TV.

I'm not here to be holier-than-thou about it. But if you want an argument then, how about "what percentage of people who have a TV, get all defensive when they discover someone who doesn't have one?"

I think there's been a large 'elitist' movement last few years on the web. People suggesting that anyone who even owns a TV is a mindless drone. The funny/ironic thing is that often the people suggesting this are the same people who mindlessly sit in front of twitter/reddit etc watching rubbish all day. How this is any better is anyones guess.

I'd be interested in TV owning situation for those with kids though. Not having a TV when you have kids is borderline abuse IMHO. Kids should have some exposure to popular culture, and be able to talk about the same stuff as their peers.

It's like some people who use adblock though. They just love to tell you at absolutely every single moment that they "see no ads!", I guess because it makes them feel clever.

"The funny/ironic thing is that often the people suggesting this are the same people who mindlessly sit in front of twitter/reddit etc watching rubbish."

That's me :-)

Slightly off topic now, but doesn't it seem right+proper that you have a TV license if you use BBC iPlayer?

I looked into this carefully. I would need a TV license if I watched programs on the BBC iPlayer at the same time they are broadcast. Currently there is no requirement to have a TV license if you watch iPlayer programs after they are shown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/01/iplayer_does_...

Yes. Though it would only be legally required for watching a live iPlayer stream. Not quite sure how the dudes in the vans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmdUcmLFkw) detect this though.

Not having a TV when you have kids is borderline abuse IMHO.

For me, having a TV at home when I was a kid was borderline abuse. I've considered it the idiot box for as long as I can remember myself, which would be since about three years old.

When I first moved away from my parents to live with my then-GF, she kinda wanted a TV but I firmly said no.

I've never had my own TV and never will.

I can't stand being in the same room with a running TV. I always ask to mute it at least; if that isn't possible, I leave the room or cover my ears. The issue isn't the noise; it's those horrible fake intonations that everyone uses on TV.

Come now. Is the internet really all that much better for people? seriously?

You could easily call the internet the 'idiot net'. People under the delusion that their opinion matters, mindlessly posting inane useless comments like this one.

Many of the biggest sites out there serve no real use other than to waste peoples time.

Totally Agree. It's Just another level of idiotisam. 90% of the time is wasted on the Net.

The Web has made me a better programmer, a better musician, a better debater, gave me a better understanding of mathematics, kept my English skills from rusting, and a lot more. Wikipedia or the instructional videos on YouTube are miles above TV in usefulness. Also, TV doesn't enable me to talk with intelligent people across the ocean.

Would you exchange the Web for a TV with 1000 channels?

They serve different purposes. My point was that there's good and bad in everything.

It would be a really hard decision between TV and the web, not sure which I'd choose TBH.

Thanks to the History Channel I know everything there is to know about World War II.

One immediate difference that comes to mind is that the internet is a two-way medium, whereas television is a one-way medium.

That doesn't mean that any given part of the internet will be better, but it does mean that the internet has the potential to be far better.

I think "surfing the net" for hours on end is a step above channel surfing, but still definitely a step below purposeful action on a project you're working on.

Honestly, I know the reply to this has a valid point about "idiot net", but I feel the same way as you.

Except I grew up with the TV always on, even if no one was watching it, it was running, when I moved out, I avoided cable and TV for a while, too busy really. Now when I visit my parents or my brothers, it drives me up the wall that the TV has to constantly be running.

Not having a TV when you have kids is borderline abuse IMHO

Then I say, "why would anyone want to force TV on their children", then you say, "I don't want to force it, you're misunderstanding". I feel like we've had this discussion before, you're trolling [1].

Borderline abuse is a serious accusation, but then I'd argue providing a child frequent and regular unrestricted access to TV (or internet) is borderline abuse, so maybe we're even. I don't think you're arguing that, though, I'm just strawmanning. My kids are as involved with pop-culture as any four and three year old should be, TV will never be necessary for that. As they grow TV is going to be less and less relevant (IMHO), so the point will be moot.

Side note, just had a funny conversation with son last night trying to explain what a television station is (he watched "the spongebob movie" on Nick Jr. at the doctor's office), "it's like a website that shows movies all the time, but you can't choose them" was the best I could do.

([1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=503251)

Haha. I remember my Dad telling me that his Dad would never allow a TV in the house the whole time he was growing up - he used to read the TV listings in Radio Times (UK mag with both TV and radio schedules) so he could talk with his schoolfriends about programmes they'd seen, being too emberassed to admit he didn't own a TV. Whenever someone came to visit, he told them the TV was being repaired.

Apparently soon after he left home at 18, my Grandad then went out and bought a telly, and soon after got the biggest satellite package he could.

Anyway, I don't watch TV - where would I find the time for reddit and StumbleUpon if I did?

Note that people who feel smug about not owning a TV (not saying that you are in this group, but it does exist) are more likely to cast a vote here, skewing the results.

The results so far are almost 60/40, which I find intriguing from a personal point of view because I've never known a single person in real life who didn't own a TV - geeks and otherwise.. correlating somewhat with the "official" figures of 98-99% penetration.

I remember reading some guy's blog entry where he cuttingly remarked that he used to not watch TV, but that he spent so much time smugly telling other people that he didn't watch TV that it took less time to actually just watch the damn TV :-)

You mean White People? (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/26/28-not-having-a-t...)

I own a really nice 55" 1080p TV, cable, and a DVR. However, the last time I turned it on was 3 weeks ago to play though the force unleashed. As a teen I used to watch TV all the time, but I ended up not having a TV for ~2 years and found it freeing. I think breaking the cycle of boredom = time for TV has value. But, so does watching the Olympics in all it's HDTV goodness.

How often would anyone who does something really unusual (and not having a TV is still highly unusual) tell you they do?

Were it not for cable, I would probably have no TV here except, perhaps, one to plug the computer in to watch a movie.

It's not so much as people will tell you at every single opportunity. It's more likely that the person has to explain it so often, since TV comes up in conversations all the time. Have you considered that?

E.g.,

  Tom: "Lost was really cool last night"
  Jerry: "Sorry Tom, didn't see it"
  Tom: "Why? You don't like it?"
  Jerry: "I don't have a TV"

Well... at least in my experience.

Yep, that's me. I have a tv and watch it about four times a year. We host a superbowl party, and usually there are three other events that we end up catching, such as an election or inauguration.

And if it isn't Lost, it is West Wing or (yikes) Nip and Tuck.

Exactly. Moreover, merely saying "I don't own a TV" seems to be considered preaching. I couldn't care less whether anyone else watches television and yet I'm made to feel like I just announced I was the second coming.

My GF seems to have the same experience being a vegetarian. I'm not preaching by living differently.

I like chocolate ice cream so I can tell you that I like chocolate ice cream at every single opportunity. Obviously. Not because chocolate ice cream tastes good -- that couldn't possibly be it.

What percentage of firefox users like to tell you at every single opportunity they don't use IE?

Enough, as this article about Area Man demonstrates: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

What percentage of people who don't own a TV, like to tell you at every single opportunity that they don't own a TV.

Probably not that high of a percentage. However, one is more likely to notice the people who don't own a TV and are vocal about it.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

I own a TV but it's hooked to the DVD player, Wii, and Xbox without cable.

Same here. I own a TV but I don't get TV (I voted yes anyways). My TV is used a screen for my media center computer (mostly for music and movies) and video games.

No television and no cable but I do have a projector that is hooked up to an xbox 360 for gaming and netflix.

Similar situation. No cable. 720p projector + 100" fixed mounted screen. PS3. Wii. Netflix. Roku.

I love movies but cable is overpriced and overrated. Until it's a la carte, I'll stick to IPTV or OTAHD.

Depending on your definition of "tv" I may or may not have one. I do own a digital tuner and a projecter and they are technically hooked up but I only actually used it once to verify that it worked. I find the extra effort of turning on the projector and waiting for the bulb to warm stops me from idly using it.

I haven't had a television since about '95 or so. It started by moving from NL to Canada, somewhere in the bush. We would have had to get sattelite but never got around to it, and after a while we realized that we really didn't miss TV at all. Upon moving back to NL several years later the 'need' to get a TV somehow never materialized.

It's funny though, because people around will be talking about some soap or sports event and I'll literally have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll admit to spending more time in front of my computer than most people spend in front of their tv...

I think it's funny that "owning a television" is so often perceived as a lifestyle choice. It's especially odd these days, when a television is typically just another LCD monitor.

"I don't use a broadcast, cable, satellite, or fiber video delivery service" doesn't have the same smug ring to it. And you could be watching the same content over a data network anyway.

This stuff is all merging together, and it's time to stop being so judgmental about home appliances.

I still have a television.

For watching movies, you can't beat a good, large-screen television (or a projector I suppose) in a comfortable room.

Also, in the UK we have a reasonable (well, fairly reasonable) selection of shows on Freeview and Freesat. The BBC's recent multi-channel coverage of Glastonbury is a good example.

That said, it is a horrible distraction and I feel guilty about the power consumption of the big plasma...

I have one, but I don't have cable, nor can I get over-the-air broadcasts of any value. It's hooked up to a mac mini and an xbox.

Got one but then I have to have something to connect the Wii, PS2 and DVD player to.

This. Also, the media computer.

I used to watch a lot of TV. Then I got an AppleTV. This combined with Boxee meant that for about a year I only watched what I wanted to watch when I wanted to watch it. My wife didn't really like this so much but our digibox died recently (I'm in the UK) so we're back to 4 channels + a rather poor reception of channel 5. The quality of the shows (if quality is the term you'd use) is so abysmal that I can't be bothered putting it on.

Recently we've been listening to music in the evenings instead or watching content on the AppleTV, it's much better and we talk more.

i do, but i refuse to watch it. it's for my servants, they will complain otherwise.

.. out of curiosity, in what country do you live?

I get 4 channels in Sydeny (down from 900+ in Washington DC); I do most of my work with some kind of crappy American tv show in the background. I must say, from 10AM - 3PM, I have Oprah, Dr Phil, Ellen Degeneres and The View running in the background. I have never been this productive while hacking, and I must say, I am very close to lactating soon ;-)

I "watch" this crap mainly because I don't grok Aussie entertainment yet. Footie shows; three varieties of Rugby, all day long. And a politics scene that's even more petty than Omaha's provencial manicupal government. I still haven't gotten over the fact that Aussies are only 20M people; it just puts everything in a very tiny prespective. You would think the people who brew Toohey's Extra Dry would have enough beer goggles around to breed like bunnies. Harden the fuckup, Australia! :-P

Dunno what it's like in the states on free to air but they don't even try and put something decent on in Australia daytime TV wise.

I find even if most TV programming is pretty average and dumbed down it's still good to sit down and chill out to when you can't be bothered with anything else. Its also necessary if your a sports fan.

Do you watch television shows in a manner which actively avoids commercials?

As a follow-up question, would you use a post-transfer model of payment to compensate for the lack of commercials?

I have a small functioning television that sits in a corner gathering. During a local disaster (bridge collapse) local news has much better coverage than the intertubes. There are some things I can't get online and guests will from time to time move it to a more convenient location to watch the news or advertising laden shows. Otherwise, it gathers dust and someday will short circuit when turned on and go poof, I am looking forward to that day.

I just mute the TV during commercials. If my wife has the remote, she tends to surf to another channel instead.

TV, analog with digital-broadcast-converter box and DVD/VCR combo. The kids watch a few hours of broadcast TV a week; when it switches from Fetch with Ruff Ruffman to The McNeil Lehrer News Hour or whatever WGBH puts on at 6:00, the kids suddenly have a powerful incentive to get away from the tube and come down for dinner. Aside from that, we pretty much only use it for watching videos.

When the kids are allowed to use their parents' desktop machine, they sometimes go to the Cartoon Network's site and watch Clone Wars reruns on it.

My TV was broken for about 4 months this spring and it was great; didn't miss it one bit.

Now that it's back, I find myself watching ~1.5 hours a night again. I should just throw the thing out the window.

I've lived without a tv just fine for a couple of years, and didn't really miss it.

However, the technology-loving part of me recently bought a decent Sony Bravia 1080p set for the purposes of watching tv series and films with housemates, as well as the news in the evening.

Definitely nice to have for the social element, as I'd much rather not be in my room staring at a PC screen outside of work. Streaming DivX over the wireless and having the housemate's PS3 plugged into it isn't much of an inconvenience either ;).

No. my reason is, a little bit silly, the quality of the show in my country is really "low". as a replacement for entertainment i buy some DVDs once or twice a month.

Yes, 26" Samsung, with:

Sky (which I really only watch BBC1+2, ITV and Channel 4 on at night)

Xbox 360 (which I stream TV series' and movies off from my 24/7 Ubuntu box, and of course play games)

Macbook Pro via DVI, which I stream iPlayer stuff off.

I must admit I watch TV way too much, but I like to chill out and think (the argument that TV makes you brain-dead while watching is just plain wrong, at least for me. I have my best ideas watching TV.)

Yes, but I don't watch it that often. It's an old TV that was given to us by my partner's Nan, and as it still works we refuse to upgrade to one of those huge, new-fangled, power-hungry plasma jobbies. (Don't have sky/cable/whatever though.)

I keep it mostly for the Wii, although I find that I use that less and less at the moment.

I only have one so my wife and son can watch shows. Watching TV on the computer is too hard for laypeople/2 year olds.

However, my son watches many of his favorite videos (Dora, etc) on the computer.

BTW, the largest screen in the house in on my computer.

I've gone 4yrs without a TV, but recently I hooked up a TV box to my 27in monitor. HD TV was only an added $20 to my Verizon FIOS bundle, but I only bother to watch the news in the morning, and sometimes music videos.

I need it to watch bicycle racing:-) That's already more or less on line, but it's nice to not have my laptop's fan whirring and net connection used when there's a device that can do the same job so easily.

I don't have one. I do watch a couple of shows online and have seen full seasons of couple others after they ended. Overall I think I watch more shows/movies than my friends who have TVs.

None of the above, I guess: I have a TV, but it's really acting as a monitor hooked up to a PC so I can watch shows online on-demand (using hulu or pbs.org or whatever)

I have a TV, but I don't have any cable TV or satellite service to go with it. It gets used a once a month or so when I stream netflix to it via my xbox360.

Yes, but the amount of TV I watch a week is becoming less and less.

In the last week, I've watched maybe 3 hours of television (both TV/Web stuff) in total...

A productivity tip I found somewhere on the internetz

"Avoid the tube".

And it works.

I think I'd find "avoid the web" a better productivity tip :-).

Nice big plasma for DVDs. No cable, and no antenna either, since I don't get any reception in my bottom-floor apartment.

For about 8 years now we've had a TV but no live reception, which means DVDs, videos, but no adverts. Works well for me.

does a TV not connected to any way to receive a broadcast count as a working television? I have this 30" Samsung LCD TV that's connected to a Mac Mini running Vista Media Center which I'm using to watch stuff I got from online sources.

The tuner in the TV is never used and actually would not work as it's not connected to any source.

Yes, but it is analog and gets less than an hour of use a week watching the Discovery channel almost exclusively. :)

Several video screens, but none of them get cable/ota television signals. I don't watch much television online.

Yes. 50" LCD

Anyone else only watch cartoons?

Yes:)

Media PC + OTA broadcast TV still makes a TV worthwhile in my house.

Yes. A great big one too.

Having a television is quite strange (except for news):

It's like having amazon automatically sending you the (currently) most modern books, without having any real choice.

Why on earth should I do so? If I really like a movie, I'll simply buy a DVD, because I want to see it more than once.

No. 2 Years back When I ended up in a Room Share where there was no TV, It was suffocating for me, the TV addict. But then something nice happened. I started reading more books, Going out more, Went to bed early, Had more time in general. So When I moved to a flat, I decided No TV. And it worked out nicely.

But guess what, I am slowly turning into an internet addict now :). Now I had to start going to the swimming pool to avoid being a couch potato with my Laptop !.

With TV, there is always one more channel to check before you turn it off. With the net, it's one more link to check out !!.

The only reason I have a TV is for sports though we do have a few favorite shows that we enjoy watching together as a family. When no one is home, I either don't watch TV at all or watch online.

Just for Travel Channel, Food Network and Gossip Girl.

Deleted all news channels.

Ever tried holistic digital detox instead of just dumping the TV set? https://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/digitaldetox

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