To Run Better, Start by Ditching Your Nikes | Hacker News Reader

To Run Better, Start by Ditching Your Nikes

wired.com

103 pointsmshafrir59 comments

It isn't really about the shoe, strictly speaking. It's about running form. Good form means you land on the paw of your foot instead of the heal. If you have good form you will have less injuries. landing on the paw of your foot is something that is hard to do when wearing regular running shoes unless you are going faster. All these new sock shoes are doing is making it easier to have good running form since you naturally land on your paws at lower speeds when you are barefoot. this translates into absorbing the force of landing in your ankle muscles instead of slamming your heal into the ground with every stride.

Great point. There are also other negative aspects of shoes besides promoting heel striking that have little to do with form. Every shoe besides the Vibram Five Fingers I have ever seen has too small of a toe box. Arch support and cushioning don't let you use your arch and the rest of the leg properly. [1] The Vibram Five Fingers get this right also.

1. Mark Bishop,* Paul Fiolkowski,† Bryan Conrad,* Denis Brunt,‡ and MaryBeth Horodyski. Athletic Footwear, Leg Stiffness, and Running Kinematics. J Athl Train. 2006 Oct–Dec; 41(4): 387–392.

I have a pair of shoes that have the big toe separated from the other toes (based on traditional japanese worker shoes) and while I haven't tried running in them, walking in them feels really joyful.

Very cool, I know what kind of shoe you are talking about. I have only seen pictures, though. They may be the best pair of running shoes you own!

Sudden change to forefoot-only form will give you shin splints. When I dropped weight and forced myself to run on forefoot most of the time, in three-four weeks of 40mpw my shin muscles felt like they were being dragged away from bone.

Well, if you aren't used to it... Your muscles are going to be weak since you are using them differently.

I wouldn't say that forefoot landing (part of the POSE method) is strictly "better" - it's a hotly debated point.

Many top runners do not run this way.

I've had Five Finger Sprints for about a year now, and have been heavily evangelising them to my friends. Running barefoot really does feel liberating, especially going off-road through parks, fields and trails. It's like being a kid again and definitely bought the fun back into running for me.

It took me about a month of a few runs per week (20-30 mins) to adjust -- so not long at all. One of the mistakes I made at the start was going too far, too fast: I tried to do my usual 1h+ runs straight away in the Vibrams and was pushing-off from the ground, concentrating on staying on the balls of my feet. Bad idea.

Anyway, here's some tips from someone who has been through it:

---------------------------------

- Relax, relax, relax.

- Don't push off from the ground, rather, concentrate on lifting your thighs.

- Don't aim to balance on the balls of your feet. You're not running on tip-toes, and that's going to put insane strain on your calves. Instead, get the general area of the top half of your foot to land first, almost flat-footed is fine.

- Aim to tap the ground with your feet about 2-3 times a second, as if your feet are going in a circular motion, and passing by the ground. It's like you're incidentally propelling yourself along with gentle touches to the ground.

- Keep hips relatively low, legs relaxed, leaning slightly forward. If your calves start to hurt, then relax more.

- You will get sore calves as your feet and leg muscles get used to the new style of running. Stick with it, and don't overdo it.

Those are great tips! As a 2+ year fan of the FiveFingers I don't think I could have put it better myself, although I would add that you should always maintain good posture as well (shoulders back, head up, back in neutral alignment, hips in line with shoulders).

Since you guys have been using these for so long, maybe you could answer this question for me.

How thick are the soles? If I step on a nail or broken glass, will it penetrate the sole?

The soles are really thin but very tough. I've never had anything puncture through it including broken glass, although I wouldn't want to step on a nail sticking up! The wired article linked to a Tim Ferris (I think) blog post. That post had a video which will help you get a better idea of what the shoe is made from.

Edit: Here is the link http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/05/07/vibram-five-...

YMMV - but I've had small sharp things hurt a little, like sharp bits of gravel, and never had anything pierce the sole. I've also ran over small amounts of broken glass by the side of the road before, no problem.

The soles are really strong, but I wouldn't rule out a perfectly aligned spike or blade (scalpel tip or something?) going through -- but to be quite honest, something like that would probably damage a traditional running shoe; protection isn't a substitute for looking where you are going.

About two months ago, one of my shoelaces broke. I was still three miles from home, and walking wouldn't get me back there in time. So I took off my shoes and socks, and continued my run. It felt a bit awkward at first, but after twenty strides or so my feet started to figure out the proper technique. After half a mile, I was able to really start running, and boy it felt great! (I made it home in time without any problems, except for some pretty sore calves the next day.)

Because it was such a great, joyful experience (and I still didn't get new laces), I've continued my barefoot runs. Yesterday morning I ran 10 miles (6 miles brick sidewalk, 4 miles sandy forest path), without any problems whatsoever. You do have to watch out for broken glass trough, so when I go between dusk and dawn I put on my aqua socks. But otherwise, I've found my bare feet to be incredibly resilient and wear-proof. Also, I am running completely pain-free for the first time in years. It does require some changes to your stride, most importantly not landing on your heel. But not being constrained by rigid running shoes anymore, your body is able to figure out the rest as you go.

In a few weeks, I'll be running the half marathon in my city. The self-conscious part of me wants to wear shoes and avoid the questions and strange looks. (You will get those, anything from people shouting "Hey, you forgot to put on your shoes" to others nearly walking into trees and lamp posts while staring at your feet in amazement.) But the Dvorak-typing, trackball-using part of me just want to do what feels best, regardless of any social standard, and go barefoot: zero pain, maximum joy.

Is trackball more natural than regular mouse?

It's certainly less stressful on my wrists for me. I can now move the pointer all over the screen but just wriggling two fingers over a range of about an inch. My wrist and arm are always in a resting position when trackballing, and left clicking with my thumb feels easier than with my forefinger.

Could you play Quake with it? (I am using Dvorak already.)

I do, and as an added feature I can blame the trackball for playing bad, but in reality I am just as bad when playing with a mouse

Yes, I play Quake Live with it.

I like the trackball for three reasons:

- I don't have to periodically pick it up and reposition it because of running out of mousepad room. (My wrist doesn't like doing that, and my sister -- who has had surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome in both of her wrists -- says it's bad too, but I couldn't find an online citation.)

- I can press the buttons without accidentally moving the pointer at the same time. (This is mainly a problem with ball mice, but I've gotten unintentional pointer movement with optical mice too.)

- I find it easier to do things that require pixel-level accuracy with a trackball.

I prefer the Logitech TrackMan Wheel, whose trackball is thumb-operated:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/trackballs/d...

And the most important, it protects you from carpal tunnel syndrome. I started suffering from CTS and had to switch hands at first. Then finally dropped the mouse and got a trackball (precisely the one you point at) and never been happier.

i like neither, i prefer the 'nipple' (ibm and fujitsu laptops). touchpads are nice too.

i got physical pains from reaching the mouse

I tried those for a while when I was on my last ergo kick. The ball was just too hard to move for me. I almost had to pinch the thing to make it slide.

Instead, I've found this more comfortable: http://www.evoluent.com/vmouse2.html

Works great with a gel wrist wrest on the mousepad.

Hmm.. can aqua socks take that kind of treatment?

(You are talking about the kind for divers? I also have them for kayaking. And I've always been very careful with walking on stones, etc.)

Do you mean the kind of new "shoes" they discuss in the article?

I feel like listening to a chef discussing wine and then ask about the color of his shirt. :-)

It's the cheap kind ($5 or $10) you can get at sport outlet stores or even large super markets. They have a TPR (rubber) outsole and an EVA (foam) insole (which I removed). The upper part made from nylon mesh and some thin neoprene.

But going barefoot allows my feet and toes to flex freely and feel the surface. I am able to use parts of my feet and legs that used to be constrained by my running shoes (most notably my arches and calves). Because of this, my running gait has changed a lot. After years of pounding the pavement (striking heel-first) I am able to run smooth and easy, and it feels great.

Thanks to this new running style, there is hardly any wear to the soles. I think they will last around 500 miles. After that, I'll just spend $10 on a new pair.

I used aquasocks as my footwear for a long bike ride (70 miles each day for several days), and they were great, breathable like flops, but not nearly so many collision issues with panniers. :)

Awesome! I'm so glad someone posted this link. I read Chris McDougall's book Born to Run recently and it was really eye opening. As a long time runner I felt that the key to avoiding injuries was good running shoes. The idea that no running shoes was actually the key would never have crossed my mind.

I found some of the statistics in the book to be really interesting. One guy researching bare foot running makes some sort of offer to pay anyone that can produce a single peer reviewed scientific study that shows that running shoes reduce the rate of injuries or make people faster runners. There are none! Think of all the crazy and only moderately applicable studies that have proven even the tiniest of facts while the huge assumption that we need running shoes has gone unproven!

Except for the fact that most people like to run on paved surfaces where you're going to rip up your feet and get a nail in your toe if you run bare foot. Running bare foot basically limits you to grassy areas in parks that are not also frequented by heroine users.

Local High-school track is ideal for barefoot running. I have been running barefoot for the last 3 years. My knees don't hurt anymore. The ground up rubber surface provides a bit of cushioning.

What kind of track are you running on? If you tried that in the mid-west in the dead of summer on a rubberized track you would probably burn your feet and get blisters. My younger brother has tried it and experienced as much.

I've tried it on a treadmill. The need for callouses becomes exponential with respect to the speed you are running.

I run around Boston on sidewalks and in the road and it doesn't tear up your feet too bad. The first few times I had a couple of blisters but lately I've been fine.

To run better, seriously, start by losing some weight. I've ran 35-50 mile a week for some time, also eating like a pig, and I just kept running worse and worse and gaining weight, in the end was unable to break 6:20 i the mile and 8:30 pace was the hard pace.. I took a two month break (5-15 mi a week just because it's hard to stop so suddenly), started counting calories and lost some serious weight. After that, I'm flying again :).

It's just not fun to jog at 9 minute/mile pace.

As for shoes, wouldn't worry about them. Best runners I've met (sub 4:30 mile) use Nike and Asics, and I haven't noticed correlation between shoe size and how good a person runs. A much bigger correlation usually appears to be between person's gut and how easy he or she runs :)

What pace do you find fun to run at?

7:20-7:50 minute/mile seems to be the equilibrum of fun/ease. Under 7 minutes is pretty painful, over 8 feels pretty slow.

It depends on distance. 1 mile, 6:30 min/mi, half marathon 7:40 min/mi.

There's quite a good formula that Pete Riegel came up with to predict your speed over a certain distance: T2 = T1 x (D2/D1)^1.06. There's a caculator on this page: http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=1681. It's been pretty accurate for me, YMMV.

To each his own; I jog a 9-ish mile pace (4-ish miles) often. I find it enjoyable, and it provides good exercise, yet it's not daunting enough to make me drop the good habit.

This reminds me of an article I saw in 5280 (local Denver mag), or some such, about an indigenous people in Mexico. Running is a big part of their culture and they run long distances and difficult terrain in sandals.

Wikipedia Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarahumara

[edit]: Here is the 5280 article, which goes into some interesting details: http://www.5280.com/issues/2009/0905/feature.php?pageID=1691

Here's a related article too:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-...

There is a great This American Life episode about Running After Antelope which references the Tarahumara: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=685

The book referenced in OP called Born to Run talks about the Tarahumara a lot. Its a really interesting story and I'd recommend the book to anyone.

I'm currently reading this book as well. I recommend it if your into running.

Men's Health did a feature a while back on a Western runner who attempted to play their games (a tag-like game) which consisted of running for a whole day and contrasted this with their lifestyle and diet which consisted of partying and corn mash. Apparently they have near immortality, low heart risk etc. http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?conitem=3b4b1ca01e9... A really interesting read.

And NYMag did a feature on shoe tech (comparing Masai, Nike Free, Vivo, Vibram) before the Ferris hype: http://nymag.com/health/features/46213/index1.html, much more in-depth than the Wired article.

One tip: If you're thinking of starting out and don't want to shell out for the Vibrams, try running in water socks first. They are usually less than a tenth of the cost.

It seems a little suspicious that these articles and books about barefoot running were published at the same time Nike and a few other shoe companies come out with shoes meant to emulate barefoot running. The first thing I thought of when I read this article was "The Suit is Back!"

In any case, track and field athletes have always, and still do, wear paper-thin shoes with spikes.

To be fair, you'll never see middle/long-distance athletes wearing flats outside of the later peak/taper window (and this is just to reintroduce your body to featherweight shoes so you don't freak out when you change your shoes morning of). And those spikes & flats are ultra light for performance reasons; they're not made to promote proper form. The Frees are definitely nice, but your feet will hate you after you're running 100-mile weeks in them.

Those guys are out there.

Anton Krupika, who has absolutely dominated ultra-running events over the past few years nearly always wears minimalist shoes, if any at all.

In fact, he ran one of the toughest and most competitive trail races in the world in 10 ounce racing shoes a couple of years ago... and won by over 3 hours! It was the Leadville 100, a 100 mile trail run on hilly terrain at an elevation averaging over 10,000 feet:

http://coachjoeenglish.wordpress.com/2007/08/19/races-leadvi...

http://correrxmuntanya.blogspot.com/2007/10/athlete-spotligh...

Those paper thin spikes are NOT meant for comfort, and aren't for running more than 800 or so meters. For distance events (1600+) spikes resemble more of a running shoe.

To whomever wants to run barefoot: good luck. Try it out for a few months and post about how it went.

It seems like there are a lot of articles lauding barefoot running but not a lot of barefoot runners - at least in the US. To me, switching from my Asics to bare feet is asking for trouble after years of heel first running. The switch would require months if not years of slow and steady adjustment, which I don't think most people have time for.

It would only require a couple of weeks, if not days. These journalists need to cover their arses.

Well, I can't comment about running barefoot, but I can comment about running in traditional running shoes vs. running in cleats. When I first started playing ultimate frisbee, I used running shoes because that's what I had. I got shin splits constantly. Within a week of switching to soccer cleats, with almost no padding, the shin splints went away and never came back.

It's also worth remembering that not everyone has been running heel first for years. Most of them haven't been running at all.

Again, go ahead and run 20 miles a week without any shoes on. Let me know how it goes. Unless you're running in circles in a park or on a track, you'll have problems. As much as our feet were meant to be bare, they weren't meant to hit concrete.

What's the difference between running on concrete vs running on rock? It's overly smooth?

I personally avoid running on concrete sidewalks, I try to stay on the asphalt, grass of paths as much as possible. I find I need a longer time to recover after runs on concrete and that's when running with shoes.

I have not tried barefoot running yet (maybe at the beach for a start). But you seem to assume that running shoes have an advantage on hard surfaces, remember that there is no evidence to support this. I am sure it is more demanding for the skin under the feet if you run complete barefoot tough.

Interesting. I could not have even imagined, that someone would run heel first. It feels painful.

I dont know about running, but I do know about barefoot. I have always been a "no-shoes" kinda guy. The less I deal with them the happier I am. Seriously, if it is a cold spring my friends will avoid me till the weather warms up. Unfortunately I live in Illinois, and we have those times of year where frostbite is the natural result of barefoot. So every winter I put on shoes :(. This causes me to revert to heel walking (a natural result of shoes). Once the shoes come off it takes about 2 days to get back into midfoot walking. This seems to me to feel more natural, and my feet just sort of do it. I presume this will be similar for you, maybe not quite as fast, but I am certain your body will have walking instincts for barefoot styles.

HTH

What works for me is running in shoes for my workout, and then doing barefoot strides in a grassy field to strengthen my feet and ankles and improve my form. Running barefoot everywhere would be hard, mostly because there aren't a lot of soft trails for bare feet.

If you're interested in doing this:

1. Google "POSE Running". The site has lots of information and drills for changing your form to accommodate a mid-foot strike.

2. Consider transitioning by using racing flats instead of immediately going to barefoot/Vibrams. Or get both and run in the flats but do all your walking around in the Vibrams. This will allow you to gradually strengthen your feet, ankles, and calves.

3. Start on grass with short distances, focusing on form.

I'd also reccomend wearing flops as much as possible for your walking around shoes. Midfoot strike is not just a running thing, it's also a walking thing. Flops help this. Barefoot is better, but glass is a bitch.

I don't really believe this. I tried running on a treadmill barefoot for a few days and my feet were in a lot of pain. Mainly the joints and arch area hurt.

Also I've noticed walking around the house barefoot for a day or two will make my knees hurt.

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