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Comment by notatoad | Hacker News Reader

>That is why I ... am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to Nest data.

What is with the paranoia over Nest's data? Yes, google is a data-hungry company. but Nest doesn't collect any valuable data that google doesn't already have. Sure, the motion sensors in a nest thermostat can sense when somebody is in your house, and what the temperature is. But Google already has your cell phone, they know where you are at all times, that's a hell of a lot more valuable than knowing whether somebody is currently inside whatever building where you installed your thermostat in.

I suspect that the nest acquisition is about finding new uses for all the data they have, not about collecting more data. Google already knows, without installing sensors in my house, when i leave for work. they know when i'm heading home, and when i go on holidays. That all seems like information that a home automation system would love to have access to.

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The paranoia fascinates me as well--I feel it, too. I was surprised by my own disappointment in the Nest acquisition. I think there was a time earlier when I would have been tremendously excited.

There seems to be a tipping point for a company when people move slowly from cheering for you to against you. I think it's both a combination of size and behavior. I do fell that Google's push with G+ has harmed their brand in some respects. It was one of the first times personally that I felt that my wants and needs were no longer aligned with theirs. Then the Gmail changes, less room for organic search, etc. I am not saying no one is rooting for Google. I am saying their brand is in a new, unfamiliar area of public opinion and there's something more behind it than their ravenous ambition.

I find it fascinating to watch how companies reputations and image changes. Apple was considered 'beleaguered' for a long time after they were making tons of money. They are still considered to be 'about to fail' by many. Lots of people used to be pro Microsoft, then they were the evil empire, now they are in the process of trying to change their image. Google could do no wrong for a long time, now everything they do is wrong.

It'll be interesting to watch how Google handles this in the coming years.

A lot of that is due to the strategy shift from trying to aggresively expand your business by adding as much value as possible, to trying to extract as much rent from the market as possible once you've achieved a dominant position in the market.

Oh and on the Nest acquisition itself: I think the author is right. As the number of people joining the internet reaches saturation, it's no longer a high-growth category. But the number of devices—things—is limitless. I think this is a small mark in history as companies will turn their focus towards the internet of things.

Watches, Glass, tablets: all of these are only secondary displays. Nest, it strikes me, is one of the first successful pure-play "internet of things" companies. I think that's why they commanded their price tag.

I'm thinking of Nest as "Home Cloud Compute". That little thermostat desperately wants to be the hub of everything we do - after all, energy is what we use in the home for anything we do, and heating and cooling is the majority of that energy usage.

Disagree a bit. Even though google knows where am I or my cell phone data I have choice to turn off GPS, can turn off cell phone. Can you afford to turn off thermostat ? Also, as of now they don't collect data. What is guarantee that they won't do in future ? All they say is we have changed our terms and conditions and don't even ask or care about whether we accept or not. Having motion sensor that sense your presence and having that data on someone's server is always scary. Right now Google is king, but will it always be, given the race to top in SV ? So why won't they make further efforts to collect more data ? Not that I am naysayer but I didn't like the news when I read it yesterday.

> All they say is we have changed our terms and conditions and don't even ask or care about whether we accept or not.

Well, in that scenario you can always change to a different thermostat...

> Having motion sensor that sense your presence and having that data on someone's server is always scary.

Is Google more scary than Nest? You signed up for that data to live on someone's server when you bought a Nest, the only difference now is that it's Google's servers instead of a small startup's.

>Is Google more scary than Nest? You signed up for that data to live on someone's server when you bought a Nest, the only difference now is that it's Google's servers instead of a small startup's.

Uh, yes. A lot scarier. Google is already collecting data on many other aspects of our lives and linking it together. Nest was just collecting data from our thermostats.

Why does Nest need to store data on a server? I could understand an optional network connection to download weather reports, but what user state needs to be stored on a server instead of the thermostat itself?

Do they need it? Probably not. But having it is of value to them - and Google just paid a hefty price to get access to that stream of information. Nest could always sell the "need" as a way for them to optimize their algorithms for maximum energy efficiency or something that the vast majority of its customers wouldn't read nor question - so even though there may be a vocal minority that finds the practice distasteful - I seriously doubt it'd ever be widespread enough concern to hurt sales ... an assumption supported by the apathy with which the NSA revelations have been perceived by the general public.

That's the entire selling point of the Nest, the online smart connectedness thingy. Remote control & machine learning to avoid spending 30 seconds programming a thermostat.

To be fair, Iv'e considered a Nest for the main reason that my programming changes every few weeks - weather gets colder, folks visiting, kids get sick, etc etc. These events last several days or weeks.

I want something that learns and adapts constantly. I'd really love something that also controlled window openings and my whole-house fan, but for now I'll take something that controls the central air/heat.

The reason for the negative reactions is that Nest was marketed strongly to Apple fans (e.g. originally sold exclusively via the Apple store), targets a particularly geeky section of that audience and it was bought by their biggest rival.

It's similar to the reaction when a promising young athlete switches to the big rival sportsteam, and the responses are similarly emotional rather than logical.

People don't realize that the power company also knows a lot about your activities - how many lights you have on, computers, fridge, doing laundry or using dishwasher? Etc.. They can have a pretty good layout of your daily activities at home.

The old-style meters didn't give the power company this data; they were read only monthly, not continually. The newer wireless ones do give full-time total watt-hour data.

However, the sole justifications for any of that is billing and planning of capacity. It is not necessary to those ends to have individual applicances report to any outside party (as the "smart home" fans keep enthusing about), and people can opt out of things like Nest thermostats and "smart" TVs.

My temperature settings change depending on if I'm sleeping well, and my overall health level, and if I've been worrying about my financial future. If someone could see how I tweak my house temperature, they would actually be getting some small amount of sensitive information on those private matters.

Is it enough to do anything with? In isolation, certainly not. Combined with everything else they can get on me? Probably still safe, but not so certainly safe that it isn't worth thinking about some.

I believe the author's analysis is relatively more sane than the general paranoia. Yes, google has tons of data on you but its primary use of that data is to try to get you to click ads. That's how they make money off of your data. But as the author states, that business grows with increase in internet penetration. Once the number of internet users stops growing significantly, this business model stops growing too. So it is not in Google's best interests to gather more data. What will Google do with it?[1] So it makes sense that the moves they make now are about diversifying their business. So now that they have this much data, they will probably create consumer goods that make good use of this data

[1] http://xkcd.com/792/

"What is with the paranoia over Nest's data? ... Nest doesn't collect any valuable data that google doesn't already have ... Google already has your cell phone, they know where you are at all times"

In the first place, only a small minority seem to be seriously concerned about privacy at all.

However, there is no basis for assuming that that minority are giving Google their web or cell data. To the contrary, precisely the person who is prefers not to give Google his home data, is less likely to be already giving them his/her web, cell or other data.

Possible reasons for paranoia are having multiple avenues to gather similar data? If one avenue is rendered useless (laws, tech, &c), the other avenue will still gather data.

Just a thought.

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