Comment by kaplejon | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kaplejon | Hacker News Reader

This is basically the perfect collection of thoughts for me to be reading right now. I, and extreme introvert, just moved into my brother's new house. He is an extreme extrovert.

What struck me most was point "2. Find people who give you time to speak".

I find myself often surrounded by those people who don't have any of the empathy to realize I need to let me thoughts work their way to the surface. It has created a lot of failed attempts to reach out to other people. I get frustrated, because it leads me to feel like the other person just isn't listening, because as soon as I do start saying something the other person will usually jump to a(n incorrect) conclusion about what I'm starting to say, and interject based on what thought just entered their mind. As a result, I've spent years with those types never getting to know me, and my attempts to open up becoming more curt and infrequent.

Conversely, maybe this empathy is why so many people tell me I'm a good listener. I don't jump to conclusions about what another person is saying. I rarely even try to work out my response while the other person is still talking. I let them think, speak, and reason all before reacting. Of course, with real Type-A personalities this means they will tend to go on forever, and I don't know how to get them to shut up. Ha. But, they still come away feeling like I get them. And the effect is quite magnified with anyone who is less than 100% Type-A.

And perhaps validating this article, taking the time to let these "feelings" and "thoughts" rise up, I'm finding myself in much greater agreement (and understanding of self) and will recommit to attempting to surround myself (most of the time, thought not all of the time) with people who can help me work in my strengths. The great challenge that will prove while living with my brother.

I think #2 is awesome. But I've also had to learn to assert my need to be heard. Sometimes I do that explicitly. E.g., "When you interrupt me like that, I feel like you're not interested in what I have to say."

But some of it has been observing extroverts interact with one another and learning their conversational protocols. A lot of people take not-interrupting as a signal to continue endlessly, and are perfectly happy to be interrupted if done in certain ways.

Adopting their protocol never feels perfectly comfortable to me. But, then, neither does trying to figure out how to fake a heart attack so I can get out of somebody's monologue.

So you might try watching your brother with his friends and see how they manage to get heard and/or not kill him.

It's hard for me to tell the difference between conversational bulldozers that want to own all the air in the room and the common boor. If people talk over me when I'm trying to make a point, I'll say "that wasn't what I was saying", and start over where cut off - once. After that I'll just leave.

That is some really good feedback/advice. Thank you.

Like many cultural differences, what seems offensive to some is natural and expected by others. When in a different cultural environment, it's only natural to adjust to the norms. So of course, why wouldn't the same apply to personality types? Makes great sense to me.

Regarding #2, it may be good to search for people/friends who are good listeners.

I gave up on that, ie trying to fit in. One time, when talking to a co worker who I was fed up with, I just kept raising my voice and repeating what I said until I was yelling, he was stunned, and my co workers looked on admiringly.

> Sometimes I do that explicitly. E.g., "When you interrupt me like that, I feel like you're not interested in what I have to say."

Please keep doing that! I struggle with shutting up or not interrupting people, because I get carried away and because I grew up in a household where everyone always forcefully asserted themselves (to the point where less-forceful friends thought we were fighting all the time).

I often feel quite bad afterwards when I realize that I hogged the conversation, especially because I've had periods in my life where I was excessively shy and felt awful when people did this to me. My only saving grace, perhaps, is that while I might not seem to be listening, I soak up everything the other says, and often get back to that or let it influence my opinions. It's mostly a conversational 'style'.

But please tell people like me to shut up. It works, we deserve it, it makes us aware that we get carried away and, from what I've seen, most of 'us' quickly get over the reprimand.

That resonated with me as well. Part of my own personal struggle with connecting with other people is failing to feel totally authentic in conversation. I think that this idea of allowing myself to fully feel my own response before saying anything will help a great deal.

Often, when I'm with people who have strong opinions and voice them aggressively (which is many people I know), I feel stifled. It's almost as though I'm being completely removed from the situation and my true feelings are irrelevant to those in my company. It makes it very easy to close up and withdraw.

Authenticity is something I am working on. Too many times I find myself reflecting afterwards and realizing how inauthentic I was because I hit that point where I closed up and withdrew.

This particular issue really affected me in a previous, though past, work environment where a bunch of total knuckleheads were the loud, aggressive voices in every meeting (surely I kid, that doesn't really happen, does it?).

I read somewhere about an introvert leader who said that they would require themselves to contribute something within the first 5 minutes of any meeting, because if they didn't, they knew they would never say anything. This proved very helpful to me, and when I followed it, I was able to steer a lot of decisions in a meaningful direction, even if I then went and said nothing else during the meeting.

And of course, the real benefit was then getting back to work with a course of action that made sense. Which made the work much more enjoyable. I guess that was one of the benefits of authenticity.

Now I'm in different circumstances, and facing the need to be authentic all over again. Stay strong, and keep working at it. I will.

You're not alone.

Edit: I did not intend to make that a pun.

There was a time I was under a lot of stress and thought of just going to an AA meeting just to vent (I could have passed for an alcoholic at the time).

Perhaps we need a Listeners Anonymous.

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