Comment by leoedin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by leoedin | Hacker News Reader

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University taught me a huge amount, and only part of that was related to my degree. The person I emerged after 4 years of dealing with life on my own, making (and losing) friends and even partying is very different to the person who started. The utility of university is far, far greater than simply "a place to learn". It's a place to forge out on your own in a semi-protected environment, somewhere to learn the art of making friends, of meeting people, and somewhere to discover what you want to do in life. Even if I hadn't gone to a single class I would still say that I learnt a lot at university. Universities are (obviously) places to learn in the academic sense, but an undergraduate degree is also a framework for developing into an independent adult. I'd argue that society benefits from that.

Perhaps the difference between the US and UK higher education systems is that I did all that for $5000/year in fees. The ludicrous debt that some people get into is not particularly justifiable for social or educational reasons.

> The person I emerged after 4 years of dealing with life on my own, making (and losing) friends and even partying is very different to the person who started.

Wouldn't you have done all of that even without going to university?

> Universities are (obviously) places to learn in the academic sense, but an undergraduate degree is also a framework for developing into an independent adult.

By the time you're 20, you should already be an independent adult. I think modern parents are generally not doing a good job raising their kids, if people hit 18 and then need 4 more years to "become adults".

>By the time you're 20, you should already be an independent adult.

Is this really a fair expectation? Your mind hasn't really fully matured until your early or mid 20s (25 is the most oft-cited age if I recall). I'd say that yes, when you're 18, you need about 4 more years to become an adult. Maybe spending $40k on a degree you don't really care about isn't the best way to do that, but I hardly think 18-year-olds are adults.

Oh, this. My first few years at a university I was a horrible student. I'm talking C's, D's, lots of non-completes. I was a mess, academically. Then around 22, a switch clicked in my head and I made it happen. Dean's list, 3.8 average quarterly GPA, etc. I finished my last two years as a student trying to clean up the mess I made in my first three years.
In grad school, I was a 4.0 student. I got it.

I had the huge luck of being able to go to my local four-year, decent university for virtually free because my father was a campus architect. If it wasn't for the fact that I could squander my time taking random classes without fiscal penalty, I would have probably dropped-out or gone to a two-year school to get my act together. I only detail that to emphasize the mental shifts that sometimes happen with extremely-young adults.

I had a similar experience. I didn't really trash my GPA but saw the writing on the wall starting my third year. I dropped out, withdrawing in time to avoid a semester of bad grades. I worked, got an apartment, lived on my own, and at around age 23 decided I was ready to go back and finish. I often wonder if people would have more success at university if they took a couple of years after high school to go experience the real world and grow up a little.

I suppose parent might also be making a criticism of the way society works. The phenomenon of delayed adolescence is a uniquely modern concept. For centuries, people were expected to be independent adults by the age of 16/18 or earlier.

I'm in college and the apathy I'm surrounded by, despite being at a top college, is quite disappointing.

Then how did they do it for most of recorded (and unrecorded) history?

>By the time you're 20, you should already be an independent adult

What are you basing should be on?

The age at which you're a functioning adult varies greatly among cultures, and it's usually based on necessity. In some cultures, children continue living with their parents well into their 20s and by definition aren't independent. There are also places where people we would consider children get married and start families of their own.

The age of adulthood is also constantly changing. I've seen polls that show that modern American's don't consider adulthood to really start until your mid 20s, while 150 years ago 12 year-olds went to work and were responsible for providing for the family.

As life expectancy and wealth goes up, the age before you are forced to take on adult responsibilities goes up.

And in my surroundings, I'd argue that adulthood (vague as that concept might be) often has not fully emerged even at thirty.

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