Jolla Outsells iPhone 5S and 5C in Finland
jollausers.com
jollausers.com
-it is Jolla's home market of Finland
-Finland is a small market where slight changes in absolute sales volume can show significant changes
-Jolla is satisfying pent-up demand for their phone
-it is on one carrier in Finland (the only one where Jolla is offered)
-iPhone aggregate demand is split into 2 whereas there is only 1 Jolla model
But hey, a win is a win...and it is certainly better than, say, failing to outsell the iPhone on this one carrier in one country
And the Jolla also outsold high-end Nokias (only the low-end Lumia 520 outsold the Jolla)
I would like to have a good phone, with a non-dead app ecosystem that is sold to me by a phone vendor as a stand-alone product without a lifestyle template/belief system attached to it.
Until this news, Jolla was an "also ran" in my perception, now they are a prime contender for my next smartphone. (Might also be tempted by an upper-tier Firefox OS phone, if that ever happens.)
Maybe, just maybe, there will come a time when we have a major smartphone company in Europe. I'm all for it.
(FTFY :) Ericsson pioneered with the R380, Symbian was a decent smartphone OS for its day, and Nokia was Nokia)
I also want Europe to have a major smartphone company, and I say that as an overtly (and possibly overly) patriotic American. Competition and choice are good things. Duopolies are usually not good.
Give it a couple years. Samsung's the biggest manufacturer of Android devices and they've been working on Tizen[0] to curtail their dependency on Google.
I think I'll have to give my iphone5 to my mom and in return take her N9 and install the Sailfish OS to it, just to get the feel of the OS in daily use.
That's the biggest one, IMO. Launch numbers are largely meaningless, let's see how it's doing in two months, let alone six month's time.
But it _is_ good that they can boast about this. Unfortunately, they will need all the good press they can get. It will be a hard fight to survive.
Good:
- Sailfish OS is really nice looking, and the gestures have grown on me. Actually, I find myself trying to perform the gestures like closing an app by swiping down on the iPhone as well, and when it doesn't work, the iPhone feels old and clunky.
- The phone feels good in the hand, the back has a pleasant smooth feel. It's nowhere as plastic as the galaxy phones, but doesn't have the weight and solidity of the iPhone. In general, I'm happily surprised by the quality of the hardware.
- Terminal and SSH access is one click away.
Con:
- There are no apps. The ones that are there (a media player, a calendar, a mail app) are extremely bare bones. They work, but lack essential functionality. On the plus side, they look good. Well, the browser looks a bit iffy and some of the UI choices there are no good.
- Android apps don't really work that well. Of the ones I've tried, only the official Twitter app and the Youtube player really work okay. Most apps either fail to detect network connectivity or crash. Plus, the Android apps run in a VM, not appearing as separate apps in the sailfish UI, and are pretty sluggish. Not a great experience.
- The screen is not great, fonts in the browser in particular look terrible. Hopefully this is something that can be improved (some of the fonts in sailfish itself look great). It's not a terrible screen, but it's fairly low resolution.
- The camera is pretty bad. This is a bit sad, since my last maemo/meego phone was the N900, and it had a fantastic camera for its time.
- Wireless and 3G data are flaky, and 4G is not working at all, yet.
Right now, my impression is, despite its flaws, pretty positive. Once there are more apps, the worst bugs are fixed and the browser is a bit more polished, it'll be a pretty nice OS on a slightly outdated phone. If they can get sailfish running on something like the nexus 5, I think that could be a pretty nice choice.
Ssh on the phone is cumbersome but indispensable for me - it means I have fewer reasons to lug laptops around or find myself suddenly looking for a computer I can borrow. I'm using Android, and there at least it can be made fairly bearable with things like Hackers Keyboard which gives you an onscreen keyboard more suitable for the command line.
[1] http://mosh.mit.edu/ [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonelli.ju...
A missing feature, such as your phone not running the server that you need to do light maintenance on?
> iOS offers wifi sync and backup (plus cloud if you want), and there is an ecosystem of products around it to explore/modify/share backups in the standard format
There is also an ecosystem of products to explore/modify/share rsync backups. Tools like cd, mv, cp, cat, tar... Sorry if I sound harsh, but the wheel can only be invented so many times. I agree that the iPhone backup system is a huge convenience, but if you really want your backups in a "standard format" you'll use a format you are sure Apple won't change at a hunch and that you can manipulate in the same way you do your other backups.
Moreover, I would add that file-based manipulation in my opinion is useful when the single files do expose some value. If I need to backup a sqlite DB with my contacts with rsync, I might as well use a high-level tool that offers me much more without me having to write DB-manipulation code, for instance, syncing/converting with the address book on my OS that might be in a different format. On the other hand, if I edit a .odt file on a tablet, I can see a value in directly manipulating with the shell, as that file is something that I create and I want to access and move around.
But only a subset of the things that I want to backup are document files that I created. If I backup the settings of my phone, I wouldn't even want to know HOW they are stored. And assuming I found out, I don't want to be bothered to thinking if direct file copying is the correct way to restore it on a newer/older version of the operating system. This is a level of detail that is beyond what I (personally) want to know about a smartphone.
So, to rephrase, does the shell on a smartphone empower you to do things that you couldn't reasonably expect to be implemented as consumer-level features?
Not for every person or every problem, but people like pessimizer seem to have found use for UNIX tools. N900 has built in functionality for backups, too, but like the iPhone backup system I guess it's not as flexible as rsync in combination with various other system tools.
> Moreover, I would add that file-based manipulation in my opinion is useful when the single files do expose some value.
Agreed.
> If I backup the settings of my phone, I wouldn't even want to know HOW they are stored.
To each their own, but you have to agree that its reasonable for someone else not to share that opinion.
> So, to rephrase, does the shell on a smartphone empower you to do things that you couldn't reasonably expect to be implemented as consumer-level features?
If it enables me to run the specific software I prefer to use and otherwise couldn't, it's by definition empowering me to do so. The answer is obvious. It's not compensation for a missing feature of the platform; it _is_ a feature of the platform, whether non-power users will make use of it or not
It would greatly help if he/she described how it is more flexible. I fail to see it, and I regularly do server backups with rsync, so I think I know the tool. On the contrary, my own technical evaluation is that it is a lot less convenient that the native, builtin backup solution, especially because it requires far more work to achieve the same, and it is going to be risky on the face of subsequent OS updates (that might invalidate your backups without you even realizing, unless you have another phone to regularly test your in-house backup/restore solution).
> If it enables me to run the specific software I prefer to use and otherwise couldn't, it's by definition empowering me to do so. The answer is obvious. It's not compensation for a missing feature of the platform; it _is_ a feature of the platform, whether non-power users will make use of it or not
If I understand correctly, you're saying that "having SSH access" is a feature, irrespective of how it can be used. I think everybody would agree with this :)
Instead, what I'm trying to find out is what SSH access enables me to do, with a specific focus on solving problems or implementing features that are not reasonably supposed to be part of the consumer-level features offered by the platform.
You can answer "nothing, but I still like it because I do", of course. I'm not trying to change anyone's behavior. But after 2 years of (not) using SSH access to my smartphone, I'm curious of how other people use it and why.
rsync might involve more work, but on the other hand you could have a cron scheduler trigger it at regular intervals, run by a script that only performs a backup under the right network connectivity conditions (eg. the phone is connected to your home or work WLAN). Perhaps you only want to back up part of the system, or maybe you want to back up some parts of it (say, /home) more frequently than others that are susceptible to big changes (/usr/bin?). Perhaps the only thing you really want to back up from your phone are your downloaded email attachements and browser downloads, while having your contacts managed by some cloud service. You've already listed the disadvantages of such a setup, and I agree, but the advantages need to be acknowledged as well. The stream-lined iOS approach might be as one size fits all as it gets, but there could still be cases where a user would reasonably want to handle it differently.
As for what use ssh for, you are being clear now. At first I thought you meant using an ssh client on the phone (in which case the answer would be the generic answer to "what would I use ssh for?"), but running an sshd on your phone could be useful as well. It's a quick and convenient way to move files to it -- think binaries, scripts, crontabs or runit services -- and a quick way of managing these files.
A shell is not a compensation for half a dozen apps that almost replace a single command. In fact, quite the opposite.
Does iOS have a user-accessible file system yet?
Regardless, I had my iPhone jailbroken for 2 years, with full SSH root access and never used it, and I would have never used it to backup since there was a much more stable, officially tested and supported way to implement it; the least thing I wanted is to lose my data because I wanted to be smart and implemented an in-house untested solution.
This is why I'm genuinely curious whether the shell on a N900 empowers to do things that aren't reasonably found on a consumer-level feature.
As far as I can tunnel all my connections through VPN and have a decent maps app (perhaps based on openstreetmap) I'm set. A big plus would be to have stuff like LINE and Skype from Android in a sandboxed environment so it would not access any of my data. Same for the browser.
With proper browsers most of the native apps are not really necessary.
VPN: Haven't tried yet, waiting to see what the next update brings. I know people in the forums have had some success running OpenVPN, but I don't think there is any UI for it yet.
On maps: The included maps app is not great. I think the underlying map data is pretty good, certainly better than apple maps, but the UI lacks features (like the other apps). I doubt there will ever be turn-by-turn navigation, there's no street view. It's actually possible to install and use the Google maps app for android, and it at least doesn't crash.
LINE: Just tried installing and running it, seems to work perfectly fine (with caveats about running an android app in sailfish).
People say Skype is one of the android apps that works the best. I've installed it but haven't actually tried a Skype call, so I can't speak to that.
Edit: Missed the part about sandboxing. I think there has been some talk about that, at the moment there are no access controls for individual apps at all. All the parts that need to change to make that possible are open source, so hopefully someone will make it happen.
If this OS, and phone, can get that same sort of support and community around it(and I don't see why not seeing that they're based on the same cores built by the same teams) I see great things in the future. Like booting Ubuntu, Jolla and Mozilla from the same phone.
- those numbers are only for DNA: it was the operator that I used, great service; it is a relevant operator on the market, but apparently not the best for international roaming or the countryside; Helsinki coverage makes it a preferred option for the savvy, but not the most senior crowd who travels abroad quite a bit;
- the tech scene is extremely tight-knight, sprung out of Nokia; most of those have close ties to some of Jollo developers and have internal information on the project;
- the country is not only fairly small, it includes SuperCell, Rovio and that’s the tip of the iceberg: dozen of thousands out of the 600k-1.3M people living in Helsinki or around develop for mobiles; most people openly describe how the country made a conscious, political, country-wide pivot from Nokia’s experience in sparse mobile code to iOS games and apps; half the people there seem to personally know game developers;
- iPhones 5C and 5S were not available early this summer and as you can imagine, this was a significant, professionally dire problem (on that note: Seriously, Apple!?); people flew and came back with fistfuls of the things up long after Finnish resellers suffered shortages; I believe that operator subsidies on the handsets are not significant (but I can’t say for sure: as a foreigner, I couldn’t hold a contract myself).
Because of that, I’m assuming that operator sales of smartphones are a biased sample; traffic data would be preferable for actual use. However, even that usage is skewed: most people have a mobile platform written in bold on their LinkedIn profile, or ask one who has before buying a handset. That they sold significantly is a great sign however: if the product wasn’t good, local buyers would have heard rumors before — and many people buying are actually considering developing for the thing.
Correct! As far as I know DNA is a tiny player compared to the biggest operators TeliaSonera and Elisa. So these numbers don't have the handsets sold by Jolla's store. And they don't have iPhones sold by other operators or retailers. I think DNA numbers cover less than 10% of handset sales in Finland.
For me this seems to invalidate the ecosystem concept underlying for example the Nokia switch to Microsoft and making Jolla and other smaller phone makers' chances of success a lot bigger.
Most Android phones are not Samsung 4 or HTC one.
Also it is good to have a way to run more exotic apps that it does not make sense to port to a less mainstream environment.
I'm Finnish and has used Nokia Communicators since the 90s and my previous phones was an N9 and a N900 so the main attraction is the native environment as a continuation of Mameo/Meego and the company itself. Thankfully there is still some Finnish companies who seems to understand how to apply 'Management by perkele' :-)
2. I wish! But no.
Open Mobile's Web site openmobileww.com lists all the details that are public re the product. If you need an introduction, let me know.
* Big market
* Iphone is too expensive because its built outside of Brazil and have heavy taxes because of it
* Android doenst actually have a strong brand.. its good looking and the hardware is more cheap, so people buy because of the lack of options (actually to be fair, samsung is pretty good, as everybody knows) - People dont buy a phone because its a android like they do with Apple
Map for the gold mine:
* Find a good brazilian partner with good relations and well stablished in traditional industry
* Ask for money in development banks like BNDES to build a factory(or use some part of one already built) in Zona Franca de Manaus (with tax incentives) (it will be easy for a project like yours as long Jolla have well conected people here)
* Use the factory to export to other south american countries with tax incentives for exports
...
I think Brazil is a unique market to launch this things because of the unique environment you have here..
Once Jolla made a pitch and some hits here, they can start to launch in more saturated and sophisticated markets (read apple fanboysm here) like US and EU
Really, Jolla should be very serious about that possibility..
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/24/apple-now-selling-brazil...
To succeed in the Brazilian market they need the following: * Cheap devices. The Jolla phone is more expensive than Android competition, even higher end devices such as Moto G. * Whatsapp support is a must in here. People will decide against a device if it doesnt have whatsapp client. * Agreement with some carrier to push it. * Localized stuff * Multi-sim support. Many Android devices have two or three (and even four) simcard slots so that people can use a simcard for each carrier and call everyone for free. There is a moto g with dual sim in here.
Right now, IIRC, Jolla has no multi-sim support, no carrier agreement, no cheap device. Being cheaper than iPhone is not enough, it needs to be cheaper than ~R$300 (close to USD 130) to succeed in here.
PS: I am working on this market right now. This are trends I've been experiencing here daily.
In addition to this, there's a new Firefox OS phone coming soon (I hope).
Ergo, Blackberry is not a real alternative not from a security perspective but from a usability perspective.
I'm not saying this is correct, only trying to codify the public perception for your benefit.
The feeling I get is that it occurs to very few people that Blackberry could even be an alternative. I doubt that many people would notice if they went under tomorrow.
The whole thing got very confusing, the customers data might still be safe and secure, but it's not really an area where doubt and stories about the opposite are easily brushed over.
Open source is nice, but it doesn't solve anything in terms of government or corporate spy groups snooping. The cat is out of the bag on that one and I don't think they're going to magically stop spending billion or trillions snooping anytime soon. Google/facebook/twitter/microsoft make billions off of spying on customer behavior and serving them ads. Governments have a vested interest in either citizen safety or maintaining power by trying to control the population.
In either case, there is just too much money and power for spying to ever go away or become less sophisticated.
That's internet and wireless surveillance. That's a lot less than the direct access to the phone that closed source OSs may provide.
Doesn't have to be that way, you know. You can use VPN, SSH, OTR or any other way to secure your communications, if the endpoints can be trusted at least to some extent.
It skews the app market too, probably no one outside of Finland cares about Windows Mobile but in Finland supporting it is a big deal.
'Jolla fails to outsell 3 Samsung phones, Nokia phone'
You buy it on jolla.com and stuff a SIM from one of the above in it.
I realise multi-booting isn't practical for end-users, but very useful for developers and tech evaluators while the Cambrian explosion of mobile OSs plays out.
That being said I would really like to see an outsider come into the US and gain some marketshare.
I would argue success in a home market may be a necessary but insufficient precondition to "relevance" (however one defines that). They've cleared that first hurdle. And that is to be applauded, I feel.
What's missing from many of the mobile open source phone projects is ruthless project management. Without getting to what customers need working most , first instead of whatever I, dev, feel like can hold back any development timeline.
Firefox OS has hope because the folks at Mozilla are sharp. I'm sure others do, I just don't have first-hand knowledge of them to make any claims. Also, as far as NSA backdoors, Mozilla has the least likelihood of enabling dragnet surveillance. However it could be potentially leaned-on by Google, their largest revenue source, but a viable, popular handset maybe a way to negate that.