Comment by ceceron | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ceceron | Hacker News Reader

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What could I say? The Bible won't teach you about software development, social/psychological/mind controlling techniques, artificial intelligence, cognitive science, astronomy, time management, quantum physics or s-f predictions. It will not help become "more successful". It's not even funny, it's rather boring and hard to read (especially historical books in the Old Testament). But I believe it's not less worthy of reading than all the "wise" books I have read. I assume you're not a Christian, but even then it tells the unique story of the nation and the religion, it's tragic and beautiful. But it is not mere historical book, it concerns spirituality and morality of the mankind. I believe it's much more valuable than any other knowledge and only such a wisdom can make a man happy. If you've an allergy to the "religious stuff", read some philosophers like Plato or Kant, I'm not assuming that the Bible has some kind of monopoly on wisdom ;) So to answer your question about the impact... I believe that Bible made me happier and better man or in the other words that "I've developed spiritually".

PS I agree with @juliend2 that New Testament is a better place to start, it's much more readable and less controversial.

Interesting. I was curious because how can the era which had slavery, didn't treat women equal to man and killed homosexuals could possibly teach something unique. There are bunch of atheist ethics philosophers who talk about good and bad. I read Practical Ethics by Peter singer and even left eating mammalian meat after that. And I totally realize that person who wrote Bible could not have possibly thought about these eternal truths(which are always evolving) :

1) Love people unconditionally without keeping them in shackles. 2) Males and females(of all races) as it turns out have equal right to learn, earn and decide. 3) Fuck conformity, think for yourself and accept who you are even if different. 4) Don't condemn people for their inborn nature because genetics! 5) Understand anything in the world(including humans) without bias.

1) Hmm. Do you claim that old books can teach you nothing unique? It would be sad. Of course, you can read some modern books about Plato, not read Plato at all and learn the same, but... These books were created in different times, I don't believe that any moral treatise could replace it. They're much more unique than any modern book.

2) What is the source of atheist ethics? Humean "Is–ought problem" AFAIK has not been plausibly resolved. I believe that Christians would agree with all the rules, maybe with some restrictions like: Think for yourself but don't think than you're smarter than other (especially God ;); Understand anything if it doesn't violate other laws.

is-ought problem is a false problem. Hume says u cannot derive an ought from an is. So if science tells us that a society which treats women as subordinates, kills homosexuals, inhibits dissenting opinions is not a healthy society, you saying we cannot say its not what we ought to strive for? And i guess you can see which sort of society I am hinting towards.

You've given a radical example. It's less obvious when you compare egoistic and altruistic attitudes, as in Gorgias. The evolution itself, as scientific theory, is blurring the border between good and "efficient" behavior. There must be some scientifically proved scoring rule for comparing "bad" and "good" societies, if science can tell us what is wrong. Otherwise it would not be a science ;) I don't claim that you're wrong, but it is very hard to preserve moral values in an atheistic ideology. Of course, you can identify "good" with "pleasant" or "increasing probability of reproduction", but IMHO it can't give you a proper view of morality. BTW your reasoning (why is-ought is false problem) didn't give ma a positive solution about source of the moral values in human actions.

I highly recommend 'Practical Ethics' by 'Peter Singer'. You will start seeing how you can apply critical thinking to various moral questions in life without clinging to any religious book. If there are facts to learn about human happiness then 'science' only(this includes economics, history, philosophy etc, basically all forms of rational discourse which are open to criticism and change) should suffice.

There is some good advice in Bible but there is lot of crap too and if you choose to cherry pick, its fine. Just keep in mind that your innate morals themselves are making you pick and choose. It was not written for a person in 21st century whose world is unfathomable for the Bible's author.

> I don't claim that you're wrong, but it is very hard to preserve moral values in an atheistic ideology

What do you mean by 'preserve'? Why can't moral values evolve overtime? At this moment, people eat mammalian meat happily without concerning about torture that those animals go through. I have no doubt that 100 years from now, people will look at this tradition similar to how we find slavery now. Slavery was so prevalent(and useful) that there seemed to be nothing 'wrong' with it. No surprise, that Bible didn't mention anything against it. But society evolved and soon it became something unthinkable. Some act which was not wrong, suddenly became very wrong. Similarly many moral values were not 'preserved'. I hope you see my point(literally and metaphorically).

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