Getting a SIM card in India | Hacker News Reader

Getting a SIM card in India

dangoldin.com

22 pointsdangoldin48 comments

Despite poor infrastructure in many areas, India has one of the best telecom infrastructure thanks to Sam Pitroda - the father of Indian telecom. From Wikipedia [1]:

"As technology Advisor to the Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi in the 1984s, Pitroda not only heralded the telecom revolution in India, but also made a strong case for using technology for the benefit of society through missions on telecommunications, literacy, dairy, water, immunization and oil seeds."

Getting a SIM card is intentionally hard partly due to their prevalence for terrorist activities (especially in its initial days when anyone could simply buy a SIM card from a store without any ID proof) and partly from the lack of a centralized electronic citizen identification system similar to SSN.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Pitroda

Could you elaborate on why it is so hard to get a SIM? Here in Europe it couldn't be easier, and most providers give you the SIM for free if you buy a certain amount of airtime.

A few months ago in Ireland I got a new SIM from Three just for tethering. I went into the shop, gave them a €20 banknote, and got a SIM with unlimited data for a month. No ID or credit card required. I was a bit surprised myself. When I worked in a supermarket years ago we had to ask for ID when people bought TVs so they could be chased up if they didn't have a license.

It's not actually hard. It's just that the SIM cards not pre-activated. One needs to provide address and ID proof as per DoT (Department of Telecom, India) regulations, and SIM would be activated 24 hours later. The cost of SIM card itself is negligible.

Check chapter 1 here:

http://www.trai.gov.in/WriteReadData/userfiles/file/measures...

>Could you elaborate on why it is so hard to get a SIM? Here in Europe it couldn't be easier, and most providers give you the SIM for free if you buy a certain amount of airtime.

Many people don't have the required ID to get a SIM. So they used to have someone else buy them a prepaid SIM and then use it under that person's ID. In some cases, they'd do something illegal and finding the right person was painful.

There were many cases in the early days where people would use fake ID and buy postpaid phones. They'd use it as long as the operator would let them, without paying the bill. Rinse repeat the fake id. There were a bunch of folks who did this when we were at university - IIRC, they went through a half dozen handsets in 3 months and ran up large bills. There was an black market of sorts for such mobiles - buy it for Rs.500 (reliance), resell it for Rs.1000 and use it for Rs.10000+. People used to call in to one of these phones. the owner of the phone would then conference them on long-distance (expensive then) calls and international calls ;-)

Finally the terrorism thing, where the government said that wanted to avoid giving them an easy way to communicate. they also banned the hiding of one's number in the caller id because people were making too many crank calls and creating trouble.

At the end of it all, the rules mandate official ID proof. Activation needs a background verification to be done. While this does not work in reality, the number of postpaid dine-and-dash type situations have been reduced.

> Getting a SIM card is intentionally hard partly due to their prevalence for terrorist activities

Seriously? That sounds like the most idiotic excuse ever. Terrorists also eat chewing gum, so we're going to ask for ID and 24 hour waiting period before buying chewing gums?

In the UK (and probably many other countries), you can buy a SIM card in a grocery shop and it's activated instantly. Adding a data plan or call/sms package is as easy as using a shortcode or sending a SMS.

Terrorists cannot deploy bomb blasts using chewing gums

Unless they are worried about the bill, they can do that with SIMs that roam in India.

Except that, using Chewing gum you can do next to nothing to others, putting the gum in their hair is as disastrous as you can get. Using SIM cards however, you can co-ordinate a terrorist attack. In a country of a billion people tracing a phone number that is not verified by any identity is like looking for a needle in a haystack. It can be done, but takes a lot of time. So while systems similar to SSN are put in place, the govt has made it very hard to get a SIM, until a better system is in place.

Sometimes we feel bad. But finding exact terrorist out of 1200000000 many people is not so easy job :)

My experience of getting a SIM card in Mumbai:

Go to hotel concierge, ask about getting a SIM card. Referred to English speaking member of staff. Offer him INR100 plus costs to get me a sim card with data plan. Browsing the web within 15 minutes.

Yep! That's pretty much what my attempt turned into after trying to do it on my own. It took me 4 hours though - still better than the 24 they said it would take.

This, the regulations are a big sham. I asked a cab driver where I could buy one and had a working SIM with no ID for a small bribe within a few minutes

Bingo. You nailed it.

Indian here and also work in telecom core tech. So more info below

1. about 1/2 year back getting SIM was like getting oxygen. It was like Rs5 or even free some times. It started causing lots of issues. Its way for cheap advertising actually you know Indians tend to spend less, specially in business. Following are some of the consequences

   i. Marketing SMS from these free/cheap SIM cards

   ii. Perverts start irritating ladies(yes, this is true)

   iii. Of course lots of marketing calls.

   iv. The worst part is its used for all kinds of illegal activity, when police wanted traces, the SIM card vanishes without any proofs.

   v. The biggest problem TERRORISTS.

Now govt wanted control over these problems.

Govt took few good steps like DND(Do Notcall Directory) where a customer registers himself/herself to this service do not get any unwanted calls. If such calls comes then the operator will be heavily penalized.

2. Since they wanted tracking of the the valid users of the SIM, strict rules followed to give govt provided photo id for Indians and passport for non-Indians. And also took strict activation mechanism that a voice call is made from operator to verify the user details given.

3. now the tech part :). You know since India is one of the biggest countries and due to business and competition we have around 17 operators. Even complex part is although Airtel(in your case) in Delhi and Bombay, technically both work as different operators(yes its true). 404-10 Airtel Delhi and 404-92 AIRTEL Mumbai. refer this link http://modmymobile.com/forums/70-slvr-l9-l72/555395-mcc-mnc-... This means if your Delhi user and make call from Bombay the original authentication happens in Delhi itself(in telecom language its called Home Location Register HLR in short). And when you visit Bombay/Mumbai you are in a location called Visitor Location Register in short VLR. Since your card is not yet activated the VLR rejects you,Hope this helps.

P.S: India does not allow location based services as of now. and TRAI(Telecom Regulatory Authority of India) expects your calls SMS etc are stored for 36 months. So if you have done something wrong using mobile phone in India, beware that govt has 3 years to get hold of you :)

HAPPY MOBILING IN INDIA :)

Generally, whenever colleagues from abroad visit Bangalore, I keep a local SIM card in my name ready for them. After the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, the govt of India made it ludicrously difficult for any foreigner to get a local SIM card. I found this absolutely strange since the Mumbai terrorists never used local SIM cards - they were using satellite phones. I guess some guy in national security had a checklist of security proposals to implement and this was on the list. And once a complex process gets implemented in India, due to bureaucratic inertia, it never gets simplified.

Getting a SIM card is equally arduous even for Indian citizens. You need to have an ID proof, address proof and of course a photo. If you are a married woman and have changed the middle/last name after marriage, you also need to give a marriage certificate copy! And you have to provide these docs at regular intervals.

Despite this, some unscrupulous people manage to get hundreds of SIM cards activated, some times for crime, some times just to vote on Reality TV shows on behalf of a contestant.

300 for a SIM is too much. Reliance charges INR 10 ($0.16) for SIM.

That's surprising. I'd think locals would know where to go and who to talk to get everything working. As a foreigner it's tough to know what to expect and different places will tell you different things.

I guess the 300 rupees was the foreigner tax.

> And you have to provide these docs at regular intervals.

I've never had to do that. Just the once at registration.

This is nothing compared to the $1,000 security deposit an AT&T employee asked me for an prepaid iPad SIM card. They wanted this deposit because I didn't have a social security number.

T-Mobile sorted me out eventually, but they have their own issues.

Not being able to get a SIM card in India is actually a huge deal for travelers because India's roaming fees are pretty much the highest in the world. I remember a short (5 minutes?) phone call that set me back 100 euros a few years ago.

I had a AT&T employee helpfully give me an account with nothing more than my first name -- I think he filled in the address of the store and zeros for everything else. But I'd previously had them outright refuse to sell me one.

I bought a T-mobile SIM at Walmart for their legendary $30/mo unltd data plan, and online activation wanted a bunch of PII (I forget if it asked for an SSN as I had one at that point).

I really wish getting a prepaid SIM was easier than it is, but I can understand law enforcement's apprehension about "burner phones". Ideally I'd shove a $20 in a vending machine in an airport when I land and pop it in my phone.

Was it for an iPad? Those seem to be especially difficult.

I went to five AT&T shops before giving up. I also went to two T-Mobile shops before someone would help me.

Other challenges: AT&T only allows prepaid SIM cards to be activated using a US credit card that is linked to an address. So foreign or prepaid credit cards don't work.

> First off, to get a SIM card as a foreigner in India, you need to have a copy of your passport and visa, a passport sized photo, and a local to act as a reference

Except the local reference part, you go through a similar procedure in Saudi Arabia... in fact.. you need to supply your Iqama (work permit) or passport number over the phone every time you need to topup your SIM. All this in the name of curbing "terrorism"

Ha - there's another post right now that's talking about how tough it is to open bank accounts in the UK due to the "terrorism" protection laws. It's usually the common folk who get screwed with the new processes.

If it gets too hard to do this people just come up with hacks around it. Similar to how a stranger at the hotel just vouched as a reference without knowing me very well.

The procedure is same for Indian citizens too. All operators ask for address proof, ID proof and a passport size photo. You'll immediately get SIM card and it would be activated after 24 hours, sometimes much sooner. Moreover, if you're buying a postpaid or Internet connection, then operators send somebody to the address you've given during purchase to verify if it's genuine.

All these steps are in place to prevent criminals/terrorists getting SIM cards with fake identities:

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-17/hyder...

This link has some info for travelers:

http://www.indiamike.com/india-articles/buying-a-prepaid-sim...

And of course, criminals and terrorist would never get their SIM cards from someone else …?! :->

A mandatory registration to get a SIM card is very common on a global level but it's more about lawful surveillance of lawful citizens. All other 'citizens' won't bother with providing the surveillance state with valid credentials.

More annoyingly in India as a tourist if you leave the country you are not allowed back in for 60 days unless it's all prearranged with the embassy as deciding to say pop to Thailand or back to London for a week is evidently a terrorist type thing to do. The main problem with terrorism seems not the infinitesimal risk of actually being killed by one but the certainty of massive inconvenience to everyday people so the politicians can be seen as 'doing something'. Funny aside - I got my Indian SIM in a similar way and then it stopped working which turned out to be because the phone exchange had caught on fire and partly burnt down, which I didn't expect. Indian travel eh?

Friendly locals are usually able to get a sim card for you without any delay. I got my first one from a rickshaw driver (I actually bought his active sim card and phone) for a $10 more than it would have cost. A guesthouse owner did the same thing on another occasion. Make sure to ask nicely, because these people are on the hook if you do illegal things with those cards.

I once went through the official channels, too, and it was much easier than I thought. I didn't have a passport photo either, so I went across the street to get one taken. Then I came back the next day and picked up a working sim card. It's only a bother if you need the sim card right away.

It used to be relatively hassle free until the terrorist attacks of recent years (they used cellphones to coordinate movement). Indian KYC (know your customer) rules are the counterpart of having to take your shoes off at the airport in the US.

Yea. It's expected and probably still easier than doing the same in the US. I'm sure it affects common people a lot more than the actual terrorists though.

The know your customer rule seems to make better sense.

Store (Vodafone, Airtel, whatever): Think about the normal level of mobile telco bureaucracy in Europe or the US, and then multiply that times Indian bureaucracy. Nobody in the store really cares if your SIM works, they just want the day to be over with.

Stalls: If they don't hook you up with a working SIM, they don't make money :). They will give you an activated SIM and serve as your reference, but you do run the risk that something will go wrong in the process later. I've had my SIM disabled a week later because some document wasn't included (photo, hotel as an address, whatever).

But no worries, they're so cheap you can just get a new one.

Considering that cell phones have been a favorite choice of certain elements (they can be used as triggers etc). The process to get a sim card is now really (hopefully) tightened. Or at least not as easy it was before.

You really think having a slight hassle getting a SIM unofficially is going to stop actual terrorists? It's all political theatre.

I know the process in Europe (Germany & Italy, at least) is similar, without the need for a local reference or visa. I was very surprised (and frustrated) to discover the need for a photocopy of my passport, but the need for connectivity and the inexpensiveness of the plans finally won me over.

while nominally the process in Germany is similar, if you do get a SIM from a touristy area, they don't really put you through the paperwork. I went into a store and brought a SIM card and they didn't even ask for an address, the shop assistant put his own store's address into the customer address field on the point of sale system.

In the UK there are vending machines at the airport.

I also had a clerk use the store's address. As well as allow me to use my DL# as ID, now that I remember.

I wasn't necessarily trying to equate the two, but it's definitely different from the days of "buy a prepaid phone for cash", a la, Bourne. :)

Not everywhere in Europe – from my experience to get a prepaid SIM card in Austria, France, Sweden, Spain, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and most likely many other countries you just need to plop some cash on the counter and be on your merry way. Documentation is generally only required for a card with a contract.

Yeah, the process of buying a SIM card in China is:

1. Go to a store (or stall) that has them.

2. Pay money.

In what I (apparently naively) thought wasn't a coincidence, that's exactly the same process that the US uses. I'm kind of shocked to hear that in some countries (Australia?!) you need documentation to purchase one.

Same in New Zealand, Australia, Mexico, Portugal (to add to your list of just getting a pre-paid SIM). Getting a mini-SIM is a bit more expensive at the moment if you have a newer phone. In the U.S. T-Mobile doesn't ask for anything identifying either.

In the Netherlands it's really easy, go to any phoneshop and walk out with a pre-paid sim after paying cash.

In Germany you need ID, maximum 2 per ID at a time....

Sheesh,

To compare that with getting a SIM in Thailand.

You go to one of the three vendors, who set up a stall at BKK hand over your phone and they insert the SIM and configure it (useful if you want Internet access). 5 minutes later and 1'000 bt (ca. 30USD) poorer (depending on the plan) you are on your merry ways.

Yikes, 1000THB? You can just go to 7-11 and buy a SIM card for 50 baht ($1.50). They have 3G capable ones too.

Depends what you want.

Yes, 50bt will get you the naked SIM, but if you want to make calls, or connect to the Internet you need to charge it.

The 1000bt quoted includes 30 days of Internet access with a 1 - 2 GB traffic included and 200-300bt of additional phone credit for calls and sms.

From that perspective 1000bt don't look too bad anymore.

This used to be the case in India too. Criminals used prepaid SIM cards for their communication and if memory serves me right it was also used to orchestrate a terrorist act.

Interesting. In Australia, you go to any store or 7-11/newsagent, buy a SIM starter kit, show photo ID and sign a document saying you're not a terrorist, then out in the SIM and activate it online or over the phone.

Good that terrorists are very honest people...

Isn't it? ;)

A terrorist is a freedom f ighter who isn't on your side.

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