Snowden ally Appelbaum claims his Berlin apartment was invaded
dw.de
dw.de
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/20/we_do_not_live_in_a http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/17/long_before_helping_ex...
This sort of impunity to harass civilians who have not committed any crime is something you'd expect in a police state, not a functioning democracy. Sadly it seems the UK and US have now joined the ranks of countries who employ this sort of harassment routinely at the border.
Whatever the reasons, I don't think it's justifiable to stop, question and search someone repeatedly like this without suspicion of a crime. If he's guilty of something, he should be charged, if not they shouldn't be using border agents for fishing expeditions and confiscating laptops/phones etc.
I don't see why you'd jump to that conclusion at all.
(Note that I have no opinion about this specific situation)
He really should familiarize himself with The Moscow Rules.
He purportedly has video of the bag men. When he was in the US his girlfriend woke up to another bag man watching her through night vision goggles, presumably while his partner installed bugs in the apartment while Appelbaum was out of town.
[Edit] Hmm, seeing some comments below, I see this thing even has a name:
It's interesting that I learned what guerilla strategy is from a robot in a science fiction movie.
Scene from the movie "Red Planet" from the year 2000: http://youtu.be/GltSAI25gaA?t=5s
Story in this scene: The reason why the AMEE didn't kill the Astronauts, was because it wanted leave a wounded back, to demotivate the moral of the others, so that they choose worse strategies to fight against AMEE's plans. One of the Astronauts asked, why didn't she kill all of us and only wound him. The other guy said: It's because she knows all about "Guerilla Strategy" and she applies that to reach her goals. She punctuated him, so that he will die, but slowly, which is to break our moral.
Totally agreed there: There's no level of security policy measures that would make this guy paranoid.
Pretty sure the "bag man" idiom doesn't mean what you think it does.
- Inigo Montoya
Paranoid? He seems perfectly lucid -- people that have lived under dictatorships, right wing political turmoil or "real existing socialism", know exactly what he's talking about.
Sadly, it now happens, all the more often, in Western "democracies" too.
Again, not saying border harassment is right, but I'm not sure it's part of a backslide away from democracy either. Up until relatively recently, openly going after the government of a world power and then frequently traveling there would result in a lot more inconvenience than some questioning at the border. Even in the "free world", I can't imagine many countries that would completely ignore things like that. Poitras and Appelbaum talk a lot about Germany, but if they focused on the German government the way they focus on the American government, I wonder how friendly German border folks would be to them.
didn't it used to be the case that america was the good guy because they tolerated dissent?
these days it seems to be that "america is probably no worse than anyone else".
well, ok.
[edit:] and that's ok; i think it's what "we" (non-americans) think. the trouble is that you're not just one more bully. you're the strongest one in the room.
It's just history repeating itself.
Applebaum is probably less worried about his stuff being moved around to harass him and more worried about obtaining new computer hardware and a new place to live at this point. I really doubt that the main purpose of this attack was harassment.
So, if the Stasi does something, and it is the reason they are maligned, and I do the same thing at all to any degree, you're saying I'm on par with the Stasi? Please help me understand your sentence.
>What would it take to put you on par then?
Well, let's back up and look at the sport of golf, where the term "par" is commonly used. If I play the game, I'm golfing. Does that put me on par with Tiger Woods? No. In order to be on par with Tiger Woods, I need to be right up there matching Tiger Woods.
The argument that the _use of a technique_ puts the invaders (whoever they are) on par with the Stasi is fallacious. If you want to use hyperbole, go ahead. But don't claim it's logical just because it feels good.
On the other hand we are stuck in this gravity well, with an adversary with unlimited reach and electronic eyes and ears everywhere. So the comparison may be much less far fetched than we'd like to believe. After all, the GDR had people who just "went along" and didn't mind any of the STASI stuff either; how is our situation any different? Some people not currently directly affected care, but I would guess all that don't, are not currently directly affected... because once this stuff turns on you, you're not in Kansas anymore, I bet you.
Sure, we are talking about one of many components of why the Stasi are maligned.
Basically this is not a "Hitler was a vegetarian; you're a vegetarian" type of scenario. Rather this is a "Hitler wrote a book blaming Jews for everything; you wrote a book blaming Jews for everything" scenario. Yes, writing an anti-semitic book is by no means Hitler's greatest crime, it barely even ranks on that list; but you can be sure it is very central to the reasons that he is maligned.
In other words, harassment by the Stasi is not an incidental attribute of the Stasi. It is one of many defining attributes of what the Stasi were.
As for "par," you're using two different senses of the word. Your analogy could work by acknowledging that par in golf is a comparison to the estimate made by the course designers, not to other golfers. In this way, "on par with the Stasi" is a comparison to the behavior (née "estimate") of that group.
Two mathematicians in different disciplines are both mathematicians, even though their motivations and training are not exactly the same.
Arnold Schwarzenegger? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1002-01.htm You cite that guy as some kind of super centered human? ("even Arnold Schwarzenegger")
Also, where does the power differential come into play? Arnold snagging the shirt from a competitor, that's cute; but try an adversary with a near unlimited budget and arsenal, and many, many, many people. Try being one person, living in a foreign country because you would feel even more unsafe at home.
This, is being a bully. Not as a "human", but as a machinery built of humans (which can take on radically different properties btw). To bring up Arnold is correct in a way, but not because it's "normal" in any sense other than chimpanzees hunting others for fun and profit is "normal". Fuck normal. The question is, do we at this point in time and going forward want that. That is always the question. Some call it civilization, or decency.
And as for being on par with the STASI: http://apps.opendatacity.de/stasi-vs-nsa/english.html
Your argument is kinda that it's not being the STASI because it's being a normal human being. Just pause and think about that. By your logic not even the STASI Zersetzung was actually STASI Zersetzung, because it's just normal individuals doing what normal individuals do. There is nothing you could not justify with that.
Fact is, if you were the target of this, you'd appreciate support, you'd love to see a change. But since you're not, you tell us what Appelbaum probably cares most about. He talks about how he realized how surveillance kills human relationships, how he lost many friends and even his girlfriend because they could NOT stand that pressure.
And you tell us it's not harrassment... just astonishing. Just no.
Where did I do that?
>And you tell us it's not harrassment... just astonishing. Just no.
Again you misread me. It may be harassment, but what was my point about harassment? Read again please.
by saying "even Arnold Schwarzenegger". What does the "even" mean, then?
Another interesting thought is that he actually stole the shirt to demoralize, so for Zersetzungspurposes.
> what was my point about harassment?
That's it's "natural", and therefore not Zersetzung. Not really much of a point if you ask me.
Very important factoid!
Well, he can be worse too, I guess.
And no, the ends do not justify the means. Especially since the ends are shitty in this case too.
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/spionage-skandal/jacob-appelb...
The most important parts:
a) he cites a whole chain of events, like unknown people claiming they have been allowed entrance into his apartment by the landlord. (which is illegal in germany, btw.)
b) an interesting part where Applebaum does take a step back and reflects on his very own claims and the possibilty of reading too much into the chain of weird incidents. He describes that to combat that, he has a notebook to note down facts as they happen.
-- translated snippet follows:
On the 10th of October two women tried to get into my flat. They claimed that house management had given them the keys for a viewing, because they wanted to rent the flat. I called the house management - they knew of nothing and hadn't given out any keys.
Q: And that couldn't just have been a misunderstanding?
Yes, but ten days later there was another incident of someone messing around with my apartment door, at 3 o clock in the morning. Six days later the same. On the 11th of November a visitor noticed that persons in front of the house took notes about people going in and out. Sometimes there were people walking on the roof, but I've been told that's not unusual in Berlin (laughs).
-- edit: very end of the article:
> "We should never give up our hope. To have hope is a matter of dignity. I grew up in the 80s. For me there was a time in which I lived without total surveillance. About 10 years ago that changed. There are now people who only ever lived under total surveillance - and who will never know anything else, if we don't nip these tendencies in the bud. I now could say, I belong to the last generation born in freedom. But I am convinced that every generation - ours and all after us - has the possibility to push the surveillance state back, and to regain freedom. We should never be persuaded that we have no way to act. We decide anew every day. This ability to begin is the foundation of our freedom."
- He obviously speaks german now quite fluently, so I assume he will stay in Berlin, in a much safer country.
- Obviously the CIA still tries to get hands on the Snowden data to know how much and what exactly the journalists have, to be prepared. So they still don't have this information. This could eventually lead to better NSA reforms, as they still have to fear the worst.
How do you know he wasn't interviewed in English and his answers translated?
I don't think so, it's probably a translation of an interview conducted in English. Based on what I've seen of him in videos just a couple months ago, he's learning a bit (he did use and mispronounce the word Zersetzung), but probably nowhere near fluency by now.
He applied for a residence permit, but I'm not sure if he has it yet. It's kind of interesting that he and Laura Poitras and a few others have all wound up in Berlin. Obviously it's no perfect sanctuary, but it's probably still one of the safest places to be for people doing this kind of work.
Being genuinely bad at posting would be one.
Why is this, when forces working with the German government itself can apparently swoop in unannounced? How is there any advantage to living in Germany? I'm genuinely interested in understanding.
Yes, the NSA can do that, but it takes time and effort, and given that they couldn't even find/disable one of his mundane alarm systems, it's likely that the wouldn't have disappeared the video evidence.
Their options for finding that would be limited if they did not bring equipment to triangulate wifi devices with them. Limited to methods that would certainly leave a trace of their presence. If you set the camera up correctly, it might not even be immediately apparent that they had to look for the storage device (give the camera plenty of storage of it's own, so that it seemed likely that the images were being stored on the camera.)
Sure, they might come back next week with the equipment they need, but in the meantime you'll have your photographic evidence and a few days to go public with it.
Still, if he noticed the changes right away he should have pressed charges against persons unknown so the police would examine his apartment for clues.
If all of the above were true, then all that might be accomplished by going to the police would be that the USG becomes aware of exactly what Appelbaum knows of their actions and, perhaps more importantly, what he doesn't know (assuming there have been additional incidents that he has not discovered).
Documenting the incidents as best as he can is possibly (one of) his best course of action(s). I think that I, personally, would also document them publicly in addition to a paper notebook, though.
Nobody will believe a government spokesman who say that, yeah. That's why there are DARPA contracts for Twitter sock puppet armies for propaganda purposes. Get thousands of "people" on Twitter to agree that he's a bit nutty and it becomes a meme.
The important part, that it was the government, he cannot prove. The part that he can prove, that someone entered his apartment, doesn't matter.
That's probably the single thing claimed by the NSA that's true: It helps their opponents (e.g. us Germans) if we know the extent of their wiretrapping and other surveillance. Too bad it was mandatory to publish it to expose their morally wrong (and often illegal) activities.
I'm keen to say thought, that Snowden is winning this as the time goes by and NSA is loosing ground time and again. I just don't know how this whole surveillance thing, will work out on the next elections. You have the Obama administration clearly embarrassed but ultimately unwilling making any substantial change in the patriot act or it's powers. On the other hand, Republicans are the ones usually advocating greater surveillance, more police state, etc. It's a full-frontal battle of central authority (Congress vs Population) vs democracy.
Accepting the fact that NSA is wrong would be admitting that Snowden's ultimate sacrifice[1] was justified and welcomed, and that's even more expensive than putting an end on NSA's surveillance for a political team, government or party.
[1] IMHO The guy did a huge sacrifice. I understand the controversy by some overzealous patriots to treat him as a traitor, but in my view he screwed his life over something he believed.
The majority of the NSA programs were operated with both Republican and Democratic blessing.
GMAFB. The Snowden documents would be hugely valuable to _any_ government or large criminal organization (think drug cartels) that could get their hands on them. If you admit you have access to them you are painting a target on your back for groups beyond just the US government.
E.g. If I am the U.S. and I want to manage some agents in Iran, I might have to alter my strategy if I know Iran has the Snowden docs. I think you can s/Iran/Sinaloa Cartel/ and it still makes sense.
According to a number of leaders of the Sinaloa Cartel that have been charged in US courts, the CIA has been providing material support and training to The Sinaloas since 2008 in an attempt to offset explosive growth of the Zetas.
It seems to me that even if they have the knowledge, they don't think it is worth the effort in practice.
Since then I alway change the lock in the main door. This has also the advantage that I can go for something better than what the landlord deems apropriate. Last time I went for EVVA 3KS. Is that still state of the art?
I am not saying this happened here.
I'd check your tenancy laws, that's certainly not legal in some countries. I would be evicted if I did that.
"A party to a tenancy agreement who changes any external door or window lock must as soon as practicable give a key to the lock to the other party."
"A tenant who wishes to change a lock in a master key system must obtain the landlord's consent before changing that lock."
Our tenancy law is extremely specific and breaches of it either end in termination, mediation, or disciplinary action against the landlord. It's very effective so long as long as everybody understands their rights and responsibilities. I know of people who've changed their locks and been evicted as a direct result.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/rta1997207...
Are you allowed to install an alarm system and not give him the code?
He is not allowed to enter any time, I guess? Or is he?
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/rta1997207...
If by stream you mean his Twitter, here you go: https://twitter.com/ioerror
Just because the article doesn't say that he has video does not mean that he doesn't have it. In other words, as the saying goes, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!".
Well payed people too, some are probably reading hacker news. Still working and toiling at NSA/FRA whatever, and thinking "damn those plebians why cant they understand what we do is cool is good, we mighty advanced than our enemies"
?
Given his background with Tor it seems likely that it is just stashed somewhere in the cloud.