"Syslog removed from default installation" and "Users accustomed to checking /var/log/messages for system logs should instead use journalctl."
I'm sure I'm going to forget about that... I can't wait for the first WTF :)
I'm sure I'm going to forget about that... I can't wait for the first WTF :)
I'd like to install Fedora 20 and use it as my main desktop, but both systemd and journald will somehow have to be avoided and worked around because I don't want to touch those with a ten foot pole.
As far as mainstream Linux distributions go, it's like choosing between 2 evils nowadays:
* Ubuntu: decent base system, lousy desktop
* Fedora: lousy base system, decent desktop
The former is almost fixed by Elementary OS, but the latter I'm still looking for a spin or derivative that fixes it. What attracts me most to these mainstream distributions is the vast amount of available packages and their ease of maintenance.
As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. Each release is supported for only 13 months and upgrades are not as seamless as in Debian.
So for me Fedora is a very decent desktop if you want the new shinies with ease of use. Most of the time works and it's great (even with the "Gnome 3 surprise factor", that keep _breaking_ things every now and then).
That's what RedHat (or CentOS) is for...
systemd is not hard, it's just different. Those configuration files are a lot easier to generate and get working correctly.
It just baffles me whenever I look at it.
You might think of a tiling window manager as being the greatest invention since sliced bread, but having to configure it in Haskell FFS (I'm looking at you, xmonad) just doesn't jive with me. Nor does any other tiling window manager except WindowMaker (oh, pardon me, that's a tiled window manager). KDE is just as bad because it has too many bells and whistles, it doesn't follow KISS principles. Is that a straw man to you?
Gnome managed to create a nice iteration of gnome-shell with 3.6, but it was riddled with bugs (it still is, albeit to a lesser extent). Then they had to ruin it in 3.8. Categories are for losers, right? Let's remove that. And no one ever needs accessibility, right? Let's git rid of that, too. And what's with all these keyboard layout options? Can't have that, way too useful! Yeah we put some of them back in gnome-tweak-tool but not all because obviously no one ever used them for anything. The final straw for Gnome (for me) was when shell extensions that were never meant to appear in the lock screen, did in fact, appear in the lock screen. The gnome-screensaver they got rid of did one thing really well, but they couldn't find a way to let it display notifications so they axed it.
I'll do my best to make Fedora 20 work because it offers the option of installing MATE, which is Gnome 2.x based. So it packages all of the latest gizmo's (for better or worse) and presents it with a friendly face without an identity crisis (it knows it's a PC, not a tablet). Though I'm on my 3rd install now, at some point the installer stops working resulting in a blinking cursor when I turn it off and on. It works perfectly in a VM, but I want the real deal. (It did pass verification.)
Anyway, blindly following some theory is a bit strange. Systemd is several different components. Maybe you're heard of coreutils, kind of important on any Linux system. It doesn't do just one thing. I guess you think coreutils should be removed as well?
Anyway, no clue what GNOME has to do with systemd. As said: seems you're grasping at straws. Haters gonna hate :P
It's baffling, but there's reasoning. systemd is actually pretty slick at the core. A lot of the complexity comes from how flexible it is.
That makes no sense. We had a perfectly working init called System V init. That's an alternative here, you may be looking at the wrong operating system.
A lot of the complexity comes from how flexible it is.
I think the complexity comes from trying to do too much at once. It's an init, but also cron. It's still an init, but also inetd. But it is still init, yet also acpid. Although it is in fact, still init, it's also atd.
And all of its functionality is available as a DBUS API. The only users are developers writing programs, not anyone banging their keyboards at the commandline prompt. That flies into the face of everything that made GNU/Linux great. Dbus is the death of GNU as we know it. The *sh oneliner that uses pipes and plain works is much better than the far more efficient C (or programming language du jour) program, even if it's only 10 lines of code.
Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them.
Also the "write a shell script with magical comments in it and lots of low-level bash" is not an elegant solution to any problem.
Fedora's been pretty good about supporting legacy sysvinit style scripts and there will always be a way to use them.
If services dies, there is a problem that is still going to exist after restarting.
systemd will kick it back into gear if it drops.
No software is entirely bug-free, so I do like having them relaunch on failure rather than stay dead.
This is heavily disputed[1]. Please do not misrepresent your opinion as fact.
[1] Example: https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem
You mean the unity stuff? I installed the KDE Desktop package and it's great and works great =)
$ grep shiz /var/log/messages
grep: /var/log/messages: No such file or directory
$ ls /var/log
README dnf.log wtmp Xorg.log.0 ...
$ head /var/log/README
You are looking for the traditional text log files in /var/log, and
they are gone?
Here's an explanation on what's going on:
> As if millions of users are suddenly going to forget about cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, sed, fmt, etc. etc. that are only still useful if you learn how to journalctl and convert those binary logs back into plain text.
How does one use a GUI with cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, etc? If they are needing to use normal unix commands, why could you think they have access to a UI?