Hacker News Reader

Comment by mpermar | Hacker News Reader

Sure. As I said, there is many good points on your business.

However I would be way less critical if you marketed your product as a futon/mat instead of a mattress, i.e. as what it is. And although I really like how you've done your website, your positioning and the whole simplistic approach I really think there is quite a bit deceptive advertising on your website. Like for example comparing a 5" futon with a $3K mattress in the infography, or the whole treatment of the mattress industry as like all mattresses out there are comparable to yours because as explained already in several posts.

But heck, if your customers are happy.... I probably would not change it at all. But I cannot avoid being critical with it.

View on HN

The infographic is based on actual numbers we have of leading mattress company's products so there is nothing false about those numbers.

We don't view thickness as a dependency of being called a mattress but that is certainly subjective.

Our 10" version is being released soon so maybe that may (or may not) earn some more credibility with people from the mattress industry, such as yourself and your wife. We were completely opposed to making a thicker bed but the reason we came to justify it was for people who have headboards and don't like the gap exposed above the mattress and the bottom of the board. Or for others who just want the look of something thicker. But comfort wise, it's completely identical to our current version and we'll be very clear about that.

We did thorough testing of mattress thickness and its correlation with comfort when we made our first prototypes. We've built mattresses from all natural cotton and wool, latex, memory foam to what we have now and just could not see any data pointing to it being directly related.

I'd also like to point out that we don't have much support from people who work or have friends in this industry for obvious reasons but that's the path we've chosen.

> The infographic is based on actual numbers we have of leading mattress company's products so there is nothing false about those numbers.

Well, those numbers are quite distant from what I know from working with several factories, not in the US but I cannot imagine the difference to be very high in production costs. There is quite a vast difference from the cost of making a cheap mattress and an expensive one. We buy mattresses from factories that might cost us $100 and others that cost us $800. Between them there is tons of other models. Put there the factory margin which these days is much much lower than it used to be and gives you a factory cost.

So your numbers, I don't doubt they are real, but they are quite a generalization. And well, I haven't searched online but can you point me to a similar product i.e. futon/mat for $3000 on any website? I'm curious about it.

As per the gimmick.... well, mattresses have been called mattresses for a long time and have been thicker than 5" for a very long time. And so have been futons. I am afraid I can't really buy your the marketing gimmick argument.

With due respect to your own industry experience (which does admittedly give me pause as to your objectivity)...

It seems to me that a 5" mattress with superior technology could easily replace a 10" mattress of traditional manufacture. It wouldn't be the first time, either - who would have thought 10 years ago that the running shoe market would successfully be inundated with a bunch of "barefoot shoes?"

However, it might NOT be so easy to convince consumers that a 5" and 10" mattress are comparable, because for decades, that industry has been slapping layer upon layer of foam and pillow tops onto its mattresses to make the mattress LOOK good and justify increasingly higher margins.

I just ordered a mattress from Tuft & Needle because I want to give it a try myself. But I suspect that, if T&N want to be successful, they'll need to find analogies like the running shoe version (which is, admittedly flawed in that barefoot trainers aren't much cheaper than standard shoes) to explain how they can produce a 5" mattress that is as comfortable as a traditionally sized one.

hi, responding to this as a u.s. consumer who is planning to purchase a new bed system in the next two weeks. am replacing a failing king size coil mat with a queen futon system. i have tried lots of beds, and in the past my best sleep and least amount of pain happened with futons or even quilts on a carpeted floor. thick mat is not necessarily better and in fact is probably worse in the long run for the spine. there are indeed futons in the 2000 to 3000 price range; check with the popular chain the futon shop just for starters. small companies making futons of wool, latex etc get into that price point quite often. anyway, hope this helps.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com