Call of Duty's underlying message is becoming more troubling
edge-online.com
edge-online.com
For example, much is made of the fact that real-life Special Forces soldiers aid in the development of these games for the sake of authenticity. That's great, but that authenticity is then baked into products that paint a wholly misleading picture about the realities of war. The Medal of Honor franchise is also guilty of this.
In a much larger sense, it just feels like there's a giant entertainment industry cash grab that's been taking place off of ongoing US conflicts, and it's being masked in soldier worship and flag-waving. In my opinion, this phenomenon only serves to obscure the real sacrifices made by service personnel.
This is even more unfortunate when you consider the franchise is heavily marketed on the basis of its supposed authenticity, and its main audience tends to be quite a few years below each game's M rating. I don't even remotely care about violence in videogames, but messaging that resembles propaganda seems troublesome, especially with a younger audience.
That said, I realize they're games, and the object of games is to entertain. Therein lies the second problem: Call of Duty games tend to be mediocre at best. The fact their sales are so strong is a testament to Activision's marketing powerhouse.
I'm really amused at the idea that there are veterans who have been through hell sat in a room debriefing for a bunch of artists and programmers.
Also in complete disbelief.
http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden...
http://sofrep.com/18453/esquire-is-screwed-duped-by-seal-ubl...
Part of what I was trying to convey, and what I believe the post you're replying to was trying to convey, was the inherent surrealism involved in the whole process.
You have SF veterans coming home from an ongoing conflict, getting paid to consult for companies making entertainment products that purport to portray the very same conflict they just came from, and may even return to. It's just weird on many levels.
In an ideal world, these guys would be paid better and get slotted into executive-level jobs upon return, negating any need to do consulting gigs. On the other hand, as another poster pointed out: working with a game studio in that capacity is something akin to a movie deal; it's very, very cool.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6904336
Special Forces is a high bar already, and the "Tier 1"/Special Mission Unit subset of that is pretty much knocking on the door of peak of peak human capability.
Also, for very large corporations, a low-to-mid level executive position isn't all that lofty.
The difference is that WW2 veterans nearly universally view the war with horror, not the hop-rah of many modern veterans. This tone was reflected in the early CoD games.
Case in point: the anti-war quotations that flash on screen each time you die. This has been kept in recent installments also, except now it looks disturbingly out of place. One second the game is gleefully cheering your slaughter of nameless foreigners, the next minute they're quoting Oppenheimer.
The CoD games have always had a heavy dose of American machismo, but the latest games are comical caricatures. MW1 had at least a solid Tom Clancy-esque tale of international intrigue, the latter games not even that.
Then Modern Warfare had an OK story, and some strong moments (eg, the last mission with the US Marine), but it had already started to shift into dubious territory. And then I stopped playing CoD.
The main audience of these games are being misinterpreted in this article and in these comments. CoD is not a sophisticated game - it's a game that 12 year old boys get really excited about beg their parents to get for Christmas, or college aged guys that are sick of halo. If you think the CoD producers are designing a game for people expecting a complicated storyline full of puzzles and riddles, you're mistaken.
I don't understand the purpose behind this article. It's basically like being upset that a fisher price toy is too simple minded and easy.
When I played it, that's what it did for me. It was replacing other competitive outlets (pool, poker).
If that's not what it's about, I'm not sure what it is about. Most people I knew didn't even play through the story. Just endless leveling in multiplayer, only to reset it when you finished.
Obviously, any claim at "authenticity" of a game in which you play a bullet-sponge with health regen is laughable at best. People actually caring about authenticity would play ARMA, in which the reward for "heroism" is being shot by a bunch of pixels hiding in a bush 500 m away. But even ARMA (or least it was the case in the original Operation Flashpoint) is heavily sanitized. It's empty of civilians. No sniper shoots at children. Wounded are not trying to put their guts back in place. It's the Star Wars version of war, where the Stormtroopers either stand or fall, and innocents never get hurt.
My point was that, what may be dismissed as unremarkable by most people, might be compelling narrative to some teenage kid coming up on military age. Keep in mind that the games aren't fiction in a vacuum, but fiction with real life military unit names, equipment, and in some cases setting. Then, marketing touts the fact that actual members of said real life military units helped make the game. That lends credibility to any perceived authenticity, no matter how misguided.
There is of course the argument that nobody that young should be playing the games in the first place, but it is what it is. On the other hand, if we're talking about Medal of Honor, that might even be compelling to some young adults.
Either way, entertainment which utilizes ongoing conflicts has the potential to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. It comes off as trashy if poorly executed.
---
Regarding ArmA, although it has vastly more realistic mechanics, it's not really a valid comparison due to a lack of virtually any story or narrative at all. It's more of a simulation sandbox at heart, albeit a sterile one.
I understand what you mean, but the mechanics do detract from any perceived authenticity. It's like having "authentic" weapons and "authentic" unit names in a Rambo movie. At the end of the day, it's more fetishism than anything else.
> Either way, entertainment which utilizes ongoing conflicts has the potential to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. It comes off as trashy if poorly executed.
CoD is not known for its nuanced approached in this regard.
> Regarding ArmA, although it has vastly more realistic mechanics, it's not really a valid comparison due to a lack of virtually any story or narrative at all. It's more of a simulation sandbox at heart, albeit a sterile one.
I don't know about ArmA, but Operation Flashpoint: Resistance had a decent story. I heard good things about the "episodic" Arma III campaign as well.
Precisely.
Unfortunately this is nothing new. It's been happening for centuries. Back with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire, every other country/power/empire ever. It's part of the human nature to glorify strife and war and depict soldiers as war heroes instead of just poor souls sent to die for a cause they most likely don't even understand.
This is just another instrument of that great assembly chain that raises young children into young adults that eventually decide to go to war and die for their country with a (supposed) smile on their face.
I think it says a lot about the current state of the world, how implausible world war scenarios now seem.
Wonder why CoD has not caught up with the times.
I assume 'people' means a majority. While I'm not privy to statistics specifically for CoD, one of the first games I worked on (Unreal Tournament 2004) was explicitly focused on multiplayer. It didn't even have a single-player campaign. You could play versus bots and that was about it. In spite of that, comparing sales with server data showed that only a small minority of our customers ever went online, let alone played predominantly online. I'd be surprised if CoD wasn't skewed even further in that direction considering its extensive single-player campaign.
Are the same group of conspirators who illegally spy on us also pulling strings in Hollywood and at game studios to promote their agenda? This concept may seem hard for certain to believe. But a quick look at history clearly shows that oppressive and feudal rulers have actively promoted different types of story telling/theater acts or bible scripts that implicitly match their agenda.
Some articles for your thoughts...
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/mar/18/video-game...
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-01-17/government-p...
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/01/the-cia-and-other-gov...
Only if they always have been. War movies are not a new phenomenon.
Couldn't it simply be that the American public are war-mongers and game studios are simply giving the people what they wanted?
By that logic GW Bush was simply trying to get reelected when he helped start a false war in Iraq and Obama is simply appealing to his electorate (and perhaps the Nobel peace prize panel) with his assassination programs.
I wouldn't be bothered with what one source tells you (if you look really closely at it) when there are so many other sources of information out there. Especially when that source isn't considered serious by pretty much everyone who plays the game.
Yet... I think it is good that people do point out the inappropriateness in using pejoratives and ethnic slurs. It marks a social standpoint, which instructs people in what is acceptable and not acceptable. Same goes for propaganda messages in games.
Activision doesn't care about sending out propaganda, they just want money and do so by bringing out action games with ridiculously bad storylines that a lot of players probably doesn't even play.
By the same token, a campaign glorifying White Power would be perfectly fine. If developers are putting serious money into crafting a single-player story, and people are playing (in fact, I think I read some time ago a CoD developer expressing surprise at the number of people playing only the campaign and not the multiplayer), it's perfectly legitimate to criticize it.
I think that it quite possible that a side effect of CoD et al, would be that those who played it who later did join the military, would have much less reluctance in shooting at others. Whether this is deliberate on the part of the military or just an unplanned outcome, I don't know.
http://gamezfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Download-Gam...
And as if the promotion of prostitution were not enough, it is subtle PETA propaganda too! You cannot slaughter your farm animals! You run a vegetarian farm! Instead you have to pet them to make them happy, an act rewarded with better milk etc. Children who grow up playing these games will likely see bestiality as normal!
> You cannot slaughter your farm animals! You run a vegetarian farm! Instead you have to pet them to make them happy, an act rewarded with better milk etc
This doesn't make any sense. You think that if Harvest Moon were more true-to-life that slaughtering the animals would make them happy, and produce better milk?
Also, this:
> Children who grow up playing these games will likely see bestiality as normal!
does not jive with this:
> it is subtle PETA propaganda too!
As animals can't consent to sex, I'm pretty sure that Peta wouldn't agree with bestiality.
The linked article over-analyses a game and over-estimates the impact of games in general. If you did the same thing with Harvest Moon you could indeed classify it as pro-vegetarian propaganda and as having a very questionable message about human relationships.
/r/conspiracy is leaking into HN /r/conspiratard would like a word with many here.
Call of Duty--all iterations are basically varying degrees of "America, fuck yeah!". What's troubling (as the article posits) is that the series has basically focused on trying to portray America as an underdog despite the facts of today basically showing that in any knock-down-drag-out fight, we're basically on par with the Empire in Star Wars. We have all the toys and all the troops.
Battlefield 1942/Vietnam/2--Not gory, fun gameplay, not serious, not America Fuck Yeah. All sides are represented more or less fairly, and it's more on the "game" side of "military games" than the "military" side. The games are about a level I'd feel comfortable letting a young teen play.
Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon (original series)--Fairly brilliant and unforgiving tactical shooters under the Tom Clancy/Red Storm banner. Troops died and stayed dead, one-shot kills were the norm, and honestly anything other than like an hour of pre-mission planning would result in casualties on your team if not a complete failure. Hard.
Operation Flashpoint/Armed Assault (Arma)--A brilliant series of military simulators, a slight rebranding of which (VBS2) is used to train actual soldiers. The games do a brilliant job of depicting realistic engagement distances, weapons fire, combined arms, the overwhelming superiority of American air power, and how much you will never ever ever want to be an infantryman. Seriously, my biggest impression playing the game was "Man, I hope to hell I never have to wield a rifle for my country, because that life is short." It's not particularly gory, but the impression of just how fragile people are in modern engagements is hard to shake. It's pretty solid.
Spec Ops: The Line--A game which starts as a generic third-person America Fuck Yeah shooter, and then gets darker. And darker. And darker. It's interesting mostly for its story and gore in points; the actual combat is kind of meh. It kind of ridicules the entire AFY and military-shooter mindset, and explicitly mocks the player for participating. It's pretty intense, and I wouldn't suggest it for younger folks.
Soldier of Fortune 2--This is what Call of Duty would've been if it was less patriotic, more mercenary, and much much gorier. Every shooter decides to optimize for something, and these folks decided "Hey, fuck it, what is the most accurate damage model we can use for people?". You can sever fingers, joints, render faces a pile of mush...it's quite unsettling, and is very much not a kid's game.
~
The biggest problem I have with the CoD series is that you basically are playing lazily-written and farcical missions, and that the combat is neutered set-pieces. Enemies respawn infinitely in most areas, and gameplay is very linear (levels do not lend themselves to meaningful exploration). The first modern warfare game was at least somewhat restrained in its AFY, but the later entries in the series are way too much "What's the next setpiece going to be? What's the next cool America Fuck Yeah moment?"
If a game is going to portray war, it should decide whether it wants to be focus on the fun or on the tactics. Battlefield is a good example of the former, and Arma/Ghost Recon an example of the latter--Soldier of Fortune was fun and messy but not focused on showing war, Spec Ops was commentary over gameplay, and CoD is AFY and young male empowerment fantasies; that is to say, the last few are action movies and not war movies.
~
One of the interesting messages of CoD (and a message implicit and much better argued by example in Arma) is that you cannot challenge America and win. Nope. Can't be done--look at the overwhelming force.
It's somewhat interesting to see this indoctrination going on at this point in our national history, especially when the .gov and .mil in the past decades have done so much to show their authortarian and anti-individual tendencies.
Which is, not coincidentally, the last game made by Infinity Ward, the original creators of the series, before Activision fucked them[1] and put Treyarch in charge.
It's fun to compare the current games with the original, where the most heroic campaign was definitively the Soviet, including the climactic end where the player raised the Victory Banner[2] on top of the Reichtag.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Ward#Infinity_Ward_Em...
I don't remember World at War being very "AFY." What parts of WaW did you think were bad?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Ward#Dismissal_of_sen...
That said, I suppose it's not Treyarch's doing, it's just Activision doing what it does best.
Funny, my takeaway was "Man, I hope to hell I never have to pilot a helicopter, because the ground is a lot closer than you think."
OFP/ARMA are up there with Rainbow 6/the first Ghost Recon in terms of realism, although they all have very different focus. The SWAT games should get a mention as well.
> One of the interesting messages of CoD (and a message implicit and much better argued by example in Arma) is that you cannot challenge America and win. Nope. Can't be done--look at the overwhelming force.
Haven't played ARMA, but it's not really what I took away from the original OFP. I read it more as a "let's have ourselves Red Storm Rising on a much smaller scale". The big difference as well with the CoD games (at least the recent versions) is that the OFP storyline is not heavily morality-based. Ok, the opposition is not made of nice people, but they're not "evil terrorists who want to blow up the free world and have the wrong religion".
For one, the "real world" itself is becoming increasingly virtual, with people now spending hours each day "interacting" with others via technology. Are the lines between reality and the virtual world blurring?
And, it's an age-old question as to whether the consumption of violent entertainment begets real violence. The debate started with film, then moved to video games. I believe there is a distinction betwen the formats, in that film is merely viewed passively, while FPS-style games involve the active engagement of the consumer in simulated violent acts. It is hard to imagine that hours of this type of activity has no effect on the human mind.
So, while it has been argued that violent entertainment does not lead to a more violent society, I find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the notion of a complete disconnect between mass shootings and other forms of dramatic violence, with the proliferation of realistic FPS games. This is especially so, given that tactics used in the former frequently seem to mimic those of the latter.
While it's too short, and only scratches the surface of the topic, his idea is valid and not unfamiliar to people who like or hate these games.
I've played these games before and thought "this is American bullshit (for reasons stated in the article).... but kinda fun at the same".
Maybe many many years from now we can appreciate it aesthetically, like we do some propagandic speeches, but right now it's very clear that COD drives a very certain message to the people who play it - but now I'm just repeating the article.
>>"Not co-incidentally, G.I. Joe returned when America needed him most. It was re-launched in September 2001, with the battle against terrorists replacing its ‘80s communist foes.
This is evident in everything from comics to music. For instance here is a nice tune for you 80s babies, ActRazer - Kill Switch: http://youtu.be/_jhHRth-4qg
First of all, children are not actively engaged with media. They can appreciate art, but for the most part they are not having a conversation with what they consume, so, yes, we should be aware of what they consume, because, again, they do not consume like we do.
Second, I don't think we should ban Call of Duty. I think we should shame the executives responsible out of the industry and set the developers right or not work with them. However my opinion would be different if the games were less vulgar/parents had better control over them.
> they do not consume like we do
They are smarter than you think. Some play dumb because people except them to be dumb, but try talking to a kid who isn't oppressed by people who think they can't engage with media actively.
>I think we should shame the executives responsible out of the industry and set the developers right or not work with them.
In other words, you want to encourage censorship for things you don't like.
That's right! People who are worried about some of the crap kids get exposed to are actually actively causing whatever they're worried about. This makes so much sense.
I've met kids who were raised as people instead of as sub-human property. They are not damaged. They can make solid choices. They know what's real and what's not, and fiction doesn't hurt them no more than it does any adult. Children are hungry for knowledge, and when gained it is exactly what makes people more resilient against what you fear.
On topic, CoD is not made for children. It's made for adults. But if a child was exposed to it and they understood it was all pretend do you think they would be in any way damaged? If they understood that in reality it's not okay to shoot people that playing a game would make them want to shoot people in the real world? Would they think it was okay to shoot Russians? That the US needs a larger army?
I grew up in a highly religious family and was censored from basically every media in fear of the "crap" turning me toward satan. Which was everything, and it makes me roll my eyes now what they thought would turn me away from their god. This is why I hold so much disdain for people who are so worried about kids being exposed to crap. Let the kids decide if it's crap or not. Talk with them about why they like it or not. If something concerns you about what they are interested in, talk with them to make sure they understand what is and isn't real, what is acceptable in the real world and what isn't. If they know what's real and what isn't why should they fear? Why should they be damaged in any way?
Why? The game is rated M, the game shops doesn't let children buy M-rated games. Educate the parents instead. Leave my games be, please.
Because it's a lot of fun and guns are cool. What lasting impression would CoD make on a 12-year old kid's mind anyway?
I’m also not sure what your point regarding intent is. If something has a certain unintended effect the authors’ statement that they never intended that effect may be interesting (especially when looking at the creation process and when looking into why certain things turn out the way they do) but it’s not exactly a valid defence. The effect is very real, intended or not.
Is the stated effect a reasonable interpretation and is it likely to be at least no completely rare? That’s the question you should ask and discuss. I don’t think intent is even a tiny bit relevant here.
However, this whole topic is still a vast wasteland. All the discussion always seems to focus on violence and whether or not video games cause it (for which there is very little evidence and if there is an effect it is likely to be quite small) – but completely ignore the importance of talking about art and entertainment and the messages it has. This isn’t about censorship, this is about serious criticism.
I’m too tired for a nuanced discussion on this today, so I will allow myself to be a bit harsh: When I look at popular games I see the most brutal violence being celebrated everywhere. And it sickens me. I want more better games with less violence for this awesome medium. And I want game creators to ask themselves why they feel the need for violence to always be so, so central.