Hacker News Reader

Comment by gbog | Hacker News Reader

Mine:

Good books teach you about the world and about yourself.

What are some books you deem as good based on that criteria?

No, the "teach me about the world and myself" is not a criteria for being a good book, quite the opposite. It is not because a book teaches you something that it is good, it is because it is good that it teaches you something.

But why or how is it good, then? Well, usually because the writer is a good writer (but not always, some books have no writers, or are good despite their bad writers).

And a good writer is just someone who has a very itchy scar somewhere and would die if not using writing as a bloodletting.

Ok, I'd still like some examples if you have any. I think that'd help me better understand.

that boils down to "good books are made of good writing, which is created by good writers, and good writers feel strongly about the things they write about"

Personally here's a book that changed my life : The Game. But I think it's gonna be frowned upon here.

I don't see the world or even myself in the same way since.

It's simply a good book that gives a model/framework for self-improvement and how attraction between men and women work. It's still a model, it doesn't apply all the time, but it gives a certain insight and lets one see patterns whereas before, one sees only this behavior and that behavior and has problems to connect the dots. It is a model to unlearn (or at least: put into perspective) all the other models you learned about flirting in the past (mainly bullshit flirt guides, advice from girls, and Hollywood movies).

I think it's more than that, it's also an amazing story. It's not just another book about self improvement.

Infinite Jest, Herzog, Ulysses, Things Fall Apart, The Magic Mountain, Zeno's Conscience, The Sun Also Rises, Underworld, ...

Trying to read Ulysses is like trying to learn Haskel, but maybe more difficult.

Also, I would add The Crying of Lot 49 to your list.

I think it's a common misconception and negative stereotype that things like Ulysses or Bebop are difficult. They're just an experience. Calling them difficult would be like calling Yosemite difficult (and lamenting that you don't fully get all of the rock formations, geological history, social history, flora, fauna...etc).

Anyone interested in tackling Ulysses in 2014 would benefit greatly from Frank Delaney's ongoing Re:Joyce podcast, in which he "unpacks" the book a paragraph or so at a time. He's been at it for three and a half years and is almost through "Calypso", the fourth chapter. That's an advantage for a first-time reader, as it gets you through the (deliberately ponderous and self-indulgent) "Proteus" stretch in Book I.

http://blog.frankdelaney.com/re-joyce/

Ulysses is a singular book: Well-worth it if you love language, or for that matter almost anything about life as it is lived.

A book so complicated that it requires a podcast to make sense of it is not the best formulation of whatever message it is trying to bring.

But then I admittedly have not gotten past page 200 of ulysses in the three times I've tried, so that may be coloring my perception.

For me it was The Prophet by Khalil Gibran.

"Books teach you stuff"

Books may teach you stuff others want you to think, not necessary the truth. But then again, most people can't handle the truth.

I think you're misguided here, the most difficult to handle truth has to be written in a book. Movies are not good at explaining real things because they focus on short snippets of life, and direct knowledge do not scale.

For example truth about something like cultural revolution in China or religious wars in Europe is likely best conveyed in books.

Maybe when a truth is so bad it cannot be written then it has to be sung, or hummed, and music would be the deepest and most reptilian way to keep memories.

Amen to that! The other thing is that books don't have to teach you anything. it might just be to disconnect, open up your mind, see something in a different way. I would not necessarily call that "teaching". It can help with creativity tremendously! But then again, not every one can't handle creativity!

"Books teach"

I agree with the first comment posted to your comment here that it would be helpful to readers here to provide examples of good books.

EDIT: I see below that you have your own top-level comment in which you mention a history of France you have read, and comment more generally that reading history is generally a good idea. I agree.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com