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Comment by toddwolf79 | Hacker News Reader

That's the problem, who has the money to argue this in court. You're looking at 6 figures.

And somehow there are still people who believe patents protect the little inventor from being robbed blind by big businesses.

The worst thing that can happen to an innovator is not that somebody copies your precious thing, is that they (trolls or not) sue you first, that you can't even compete. Even if the patent is bogus and you hope to theoretically win the legal battle you'll go broke from even trying.

When I got into my first IP battle I was blown away by how a couple of people, who actually didn't even have a patent, could just threaten enough to ring up like $40K in bills. Luckily it ended before that, at a cost of only like $10K, but still. Just wow the system is crazy right now.

I don't know anything about the US law system so I would really like to understand this: 6 figures? wtf? Why is this so expensive? Is this the cost of the lawyers? Do you have to pay court taxes?

Patent attorneys average around $250/hr. That's around $40k/month per attorney. It's not hard to end up in the six figures before even going to trial.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/patent-attorney-fees-explai...

> Patent attorneys average around $250/hr.

The survey data cited in the post is from 2001. The post also says: "If you are looking for experienced patent attorneys at a reputable firm you should anticipate hourly rates to be somewhere between $275 to $400 per hour in areas outside major metropolitan areas and somewhere between $400 to $800+ per hour in major metropolitan areas."

FYI, patent litigators, who handle infringement claims and validity challenges, generally charge significantly more than those who do patent "prosecution" (that is, prepare and file patent applications and shepherd them through the USPTO examination process).

Also, America doesn't have a "loser pays" system, otherwise known as the English Rule. Both parties are responsible for their own costs whether they win or lose under the American Rule. This means that just the threat of a lawsuit is an automatic expense, and winning in court also means losing, just losing less severely. This is generally why parties are so keen to settle, even if they believe they could win in court so as to limit their losses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_f...

It took a while for me to understand why the threat of a lawsuit is so terrifying in the States. It seemed absurd for both parties to pay even if one is clearly in the wrong. I still don't understand why people are defending this system or only changing it piecemeal for certain cases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publ...).

Here in Germany, losers pay and the cost for lawyers is calculated by the amount the argument is about. This way, you can't bankrupt someone by winning a minor argument in court using extremely expensive lawyers.

This is why software patents are such an evil. If you've been granted a software patent it's fairly easy to shake down someone that's allegedly infringing because it's cheaper to pay the amount demanded than it is to litigate. For this very reason, a tactic used by some patent trolls is to go after small companies that they know can afford the "license fee" but can't afford to fight back in court. Lodsys are well-known for this.

Some companies with deep pockets are now fighting back at patent trolls to make it as expensive for them to do business as possible, and possibly even invalidating the patent in question. Regular ol' software companies obviously can't afford this, as it comes with price tag in the millions.

> Here in Germany, losers pay and the cost for lawyers is calculated by the amount the argument is about.

Then I could be safe from lawsuits in Germany if I confined my evil acts to things that were about too little money for the lawyers to be interested in going after?

Unsure how reputable this source[1] is, but suggests that discovery alone (i.e. getting all the pre-trial evidence / arguments in the open) can be upwards of several million dollars depending on the size of the lawsuit. Obviously its smaller for something like these Yoga classes - but if the process is 10-30k, and you're only bringing in 10k a month, it could easily put you in the red.

[1]: http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57409792-296/how-much-is-t...

I wonder how feasible it is to represent yourself in this kind of case where you could walk into court with self gathered prior art. Is it only lawyer fees that you're paying or are their costs paid directly to the court also?

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